Yeah, he didn’t make ANY Claw analogies at all :wonder:
If you are going to complain about 1f links, don’t use Claw as an example because he is the worst character in the game. And casual gamers don’t give a shit about 1 or 2 framers.
What I find funny is that a lot of the 1-2 frame link combos (regardless of character) are damage scaled severely so that they deal even less damage vs a smaller combo that only uses cancels. Of course, the beauty of using the link combos is to keep the pressure and blockstun, so I guess it hardly matters anyway. Except when they’re not blocking it’s always better to use the cancel combos, simply because of their higher damage output.
I wouldn’t say ALWAYS better. It all depends on you’re op and if they can handle the pressure of long combos.
Guess it all depends on how you play. I just figure that as long as the combo ends with a relatively safe special you’ve at least caused decent chip damage. Extending it with one or two normals just seems to be belaboring it, to be quite honest, but that’s just me, I suppose. Though I will say that perhaps it would be difficult to reprogram yourself to do the more damaging cancel combo when the linker is practically second nature to your playstyle, so it’s probably better to stick with what you’re used to.
One-frame links that are emergent from the game engine and frame data are cool with me. I’m not a fan of intentionally designing the system around them, but some people like that stuff. If you don’t like it, play BlazBlue or something.
Saw several comparisons to DDR/Guitar Hero. That’s pretty whack. IIRC, the tightest timing window on DDR is ~17ms (Marvelous), and that isn’t even available in the normal game mode. It’s pretty close to one-frame timing, but you aren’t in a dynamic situation, and getting Perfect (30ms) or Great (90ms) instead doesn’t break your combo. I have no idea what the timing window is in GH/RB because I don’t care very much about that game, but I do know that it’s huge.
FPS and RTS execution is not very comparable to FG execution.
[quote=“Sasaki, post:107, topic:75267”]
A stick won’t help you much with the execution of 1-frame links, (you could use that strange tsujitechnique though… But then again, why do I need to buy a stick, when lenghtening them by a bit would not do any harm to the game at all?) which I personally think should be lenghtened to 2 frames or 3 at least. This whole thing Capcom did with this Game is so contradictional it’s not even funny.
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saying they should lengthin them is kinda silly, i mean frame data is what it is i dunno if they plan out every link :looney:
Plinking with practice and a good sense of timing and you will hit one frame links 80% of the time +. There realy not that hard with practice.
Well with my play style, I tend to be overly offensive with my Boxer and link combos for ME equals a dizzied opponent, which equals more damage and pressure.
j.hp > c.mp xx HB does good damage off a jump-in but
j.hp > c.mp xx EX Upper loop > throw, HB, OH reset, etc.
Links enable me to put tons more pressure than cancels and can easily lead to a dizzy. But I play Rog so…
The closest you get notes in guitar hero is with a 35ms spacing, though I would estimate 60ms is more typical of songs. You have to remember when you’re playing gh at this speed it’s over several seconds though, so imagine hitting several 4 frame links constantly for 10 seconds in sf4 without missing a single one. Speaking as someone that has played a shit load of gh, it takes a lot more training to do this than 1 frame links. However this is the only skill gh has, sf4 is much deeper and more skillful overall.
k one vega blows in this game, two, why are you comparing vega to ryu while vega is more about shenangains and ryu is more about ground game and landing his ultra off a srk, three, a soon as you hit someone you already confirmed a hit, and four this isnt ST anymore. and last if your not good at landing a 1 frame link then practice it. you have plenty of time to hit a button. once u get used to it.
No amount of practice will fix the fact that due to latency 1-frame links are highly unreliable online.
And as much as some people want to lie to themselves about SF4 being all about offline play - it isn’t at all when the vast majority of people who bought this game will experience their multiplayer solely online, and not offline - especially in the western world where its probably 85% of all multiplayer games takes place online.
Secondly, 15 milliseconds is probably way above the maximum skill ceiling of the most gamers, especially the casual gamers who drove sales of this game to 2.5 million copies sold. No amount of practice will EVER get them to the point of 15ms accuracy. Its even above the skill ceiling of many hardcore gamers as well.
Lastly as mentioned before, 2 and 3 frame links are quite a sufficient test of execution. If 1 frame links were converted to 2 or 3 frame links you would suddenly have online play being closer to offline play with more links possible, you would have tens of thousands of players being able to increase their level of play by adding new options to their gameplay, you would have increased the accessibility to the competitive level, and best of all you would not have affected the current status quo of the competitive scene at all. The game will be just as competitive as it is now, the pros will still be the pros, and so forth etc.
Plinking = much easier links kids
And some say online links are easier, i dunno if i believe it but if you have the timing down i get them just as much online. i wouldnt doubt if there is extra leniency. if you have the timing lag doesnt change a thing, unless u spike during the combo or something.
Why is it always 09ers 
1 frame links are crap and shouldn’t even exist.
However, you can’t really justify changing the game engine when the game’s most competitive players are all offline, just to improve the online experience. Especially considering that 2 and 3 frame links are a pain to do online too, the only real solution for the online play is to overhaul the network code
Why would you even try to argue with cs or sc? The same concept applies there.
In cs you don’t have to work as hard if you are better at getting headshots
In sc you don’t have to work as hard if you have better micro/macro apm
There is going to be a technical side in any game. It sucks for those that cannot be as good as others in that aspect, but that’s why there’s people that can put in the hours of practice and still not win.
If people are capable of consistently hitting 1frame links, then it should stay. If it’s obstructing the game to the point where no one including the top players even attempt to use them, then they should be increased to 2 frames. I have no idea what the answer to that is though because I’m new to SF. 
so wrong. Not calling you an idiot, but high micro/macro apm (actions per minute) IS working hard. y’ever see pros hands during peak moments of gameplay? it’s ridiculous. Just because they do it a lot doesn’t make it easy. Aside from strategy, it’s mostly muscle memory coupled with precise movements which gives SC/CS players the edge, and that all takes quite some effort to achieve.
the answer is: "everything new takes time to learn. if somebody wants to be a true competitor/intellectual, they’ll put in the hours to learn. if they’re strictly casual, they’ll stick with the jump-in/basic combos/special move spam. Despite the apparent difficulty of 1 frame links, strategy and state of mind will be held in higher regard.
lol i dont complain how hard 1 frame links are at all.
I used him as an example because I play him lol And I also used Ryu as an example, so please read. And it’s not his links, as you already said yourself, that make him the worst. If he was the best and had 1f links you’d probably say I shouldn’t complain about it because he is too strong anyway.
I am a casual gamer. And I still give a shit about whether my combo can easily get punished when blocked, or not. And please don’t tell me you can hitconfirm j.hp cr.hp tatsu. You can’t, it’s only one hit. Even if you could, it’s really hard in a match - and one of the reasons pros actually USE those 1 framers. Just look at Mickey D’s Video, that’s just what he’s talking about.
Now, in order to hitconfirm you NEED 1 or 2 framers in this game.
And as a game that is also meant to attract casual gamers, you absolutely CAN make those links easier. Damnit. Just do it, it wouldn’t do anything bad to the pros since they can pull them off anyways but it would do good by making the game even more accessible to beginners.
- Cool.
- What the hell are you talking about? I was not comparing the characters, I was comparing their links.
Do you think it’s fair for Vega to have 1 frame links, BECAUSE he is about shenanigans? Then do you think it’s fair for Ryu to have 1 frame links BECAUSE he is about zoning and ground game? What does one have to do with the other here? Nothing. Your logic doesn’t make any sense. - See 2nd paragraph
READ.
5. I never said I’m not good at it. It’s not about me lol Also, this proves how much you know about the game - not every 1 framer gives you the same time in order to push the button. There are also really fast 1 framers. It’s dependent of the moves’ active frames… Cammy’s cr.mk cr.hp gives you more time than Ryu’s cr.jab cr.hp or Vega’s cr.lp cr.lk.
Look, you’re not very smart… so please don’t bother answering to my posts anymore. I won’t reply.
EDIT: Not gonna post anymore. I’m just going to agree with MuKen, his logic, as already said, is pretty well thought-through.
A 1 frame link is not 15ms. If you’re going to argue about something at least get your facts straight.
While I strongly disagree with Drexion, 16.6’ms is as-near-as-makes-no-difference 15ms, I’m sure he’s just rounding.
The pros can do it because they are pros and have put the time and practice into hitting those combos. You can you use this same argument to get some really stupid nubby shit into the game.
But not having to put a lot of time into BnBs wouldn’t degrade their status because they are not pros BECAUSE they put time into hitting the combos - they are pros because they are smart players. For more about that read MuKens posts.
Also I don’t see how this is an argument against my suggestion. I’m not saying you should put any nooby shit into the game or something - I’m just saying you can lenghten that freaking window a bit. Not even that much, only a bit.
EDIT: Oops, broke my promise not to post again