Inseparable, as in you see no way a game could have one without the other? Your ability to design games must not be very good.
We’ve been over this in this thread already. Mind games are not just card games or chess. You’ve associated speed with execution only, which is patently false. You can have fast paced mind games. You can have tests of reflex, reaction, and adaptation, all without execution. And that would be nothing like card games or chess.
Do you always just call anybody that argues with you on anything “retarded” and “simplistic”? As I said, you are only proving that you don’t even have confidence in your own arguments, if you feel they can’t stand without you provoking me constantly.
Daigo hits one frame links like nothing. In the money matches I saw he did Ryu’s forward + hp, cr hp, combo a shit ton of times and didn’t mess up once. That’s a 1 frame link. So I guess he’s better than whatever software the dude in the first page used to simulate them. But I guess we already knew Daigo was a machine.
Oh and 1 more thing. I didn’t read anything but a couple posts so this might have been said, but a 1 frame link is 1/30th of a second, not 1/60th. The game runs at 30 fps, but is outputted at 60. Meaning every frame is repeated twice.
This is going to be my last response in this thread. I apologize for the pointless name calling. It’s funny because I actually agree that 1 frame links are pretty BS and the BB method could better the game but what I’ve said so far would probably make most think I don’t. I was just caught off guard by someone saying competitive games could still be good with 0% execution in a fighting game thread! It’s just my opinion that that wouldn’t even be a fighting game or what I have come to expect is what defines the fighting game genre. My simplistic retarded thoughts. Good day to you sir!
I started playing BB and I’ve been playing VF for years. I much rather their version of “complex execution” over the one created by low frame links. That being said, it’s a reason for me to play those games, and 1-frame links might be a reason why the more dedicated SF players chose to play this franchise.
All-in-all I’d have more fun playing SF if low frame links weren’t there, but I’m a SF passer-by so I wouldn’t want to step on the toes of the true fans by trying to get them removed.
A stick won’t help you much with the execution of 1-frame links, (you could use that strange tsujitechnique though… But then again, why do I need to buy a stick, when lenghtening them by a bit would not do any harm to the game at all?) which I personally think should be lenghtened to 2 frames or 3 at least. This whole thing Capcom did with this Game is so contradictional it’s not even funny.
You have shortcut motions for specials, but hard 1-framers on the other hand. Those BnB’s you’re talking about are mostly not hitconfirmable, especially with some characters like Claw. For example, with Ryu: What are you going to do with j.hp cr.hp tatsu. That’s a stupid combo.
Claws JAB Links are 1 framers. Basically all of his useful links are 1 or 2 framers and that’s not really the right way in a game that is supposed to be also played by casual gamers.
Look at ST, it doesn’t have a lot of combos and mainly focusses on the game/zoning. This is just what David Sirlin also said. Make em a tad easier, that’s all I’m asking :annoy:
Actually, ST does have lots of links and combos, they’re just alot harder to do (TOD). Go watch an ST combo video, try to pull some of those off, then tell us about how hard SF4’s execution is.
I don’t know who else witnessed it that is viewing this thread (the almost 3,000 that were watching the stream) and looked at the thread for KSK’s GodsGarden Event recently and saw Daigo link… literally;
cr.MP, cr.MP, cr.MP, cr.HK
But that is linkage, pure and simple. Not only did he link something ludicrous, but did it on reaction to the hit confirm from the first MP, completely nuts and ludicrous.
If you can not do 1/2 frame links you need to down some OMEGA3 FATTY ACIDS!!! and work on your timing, or… don’t attempt them. Street Fighter 4 (and a LOT of other games) is NOT about the special moves, it’s about mastering the basics and having rock-solid fundamentals. Mind games and matchmaking come after that.
Not only that, but ST combos don’t scale so you get stuff like Bison or Dee Jay being able to stun you in one hit if you can perform the links.
That said 1-frame links are kind of stupid. Spending cumulative hours and hours in training mode so you can combo a light punch to a medium kick and insisting that this is a good thing is kind of goofy. Sorry dudes. I play Gen a lot and even I think the execution requirements for some really basic links get pretty dumb, especially in contrast to how easy doing specials/reversals/everything else is.
Personally, my brain sort of breaks when it realizes it can tell my hands to do something like Dan’s Super Taunt combo in the challange mode (as an example) more reliably than it can tell my hand to do punch -> punch.
I should have elaborated more, but you could have been a little bit more friendly on your side. What I was trying to say with stupid is only the fact that you can’t hitconform with that combo since you only have 2 hits. Also, a blocked cr.hp can be punished pretty badly, not to mention a whiffed tatsu.
Almost all “good” combos which can be hitconfirmed easily are 1 or 2 framers. What I mean by that is for example cr.lk cr.lp cr.hp tatsu, which is a good hitconfirm!
Now I’m not too sure about it on the Ryu side, so don’t bash me if this is a 3 frame link or something, but with vega for example a jumpin like this
J.hp cr.lp c.lp cr.lp EX Walldive
has 3 1-framers in it. And it’s not a really good combo, it’s just a nice hitconfirm.
Okay, Ryu still has easy stuff like cr.lk cr.lp hp shoryu but things like f.hp cr.jab or the Vega combo I posted before could at least have a frame or two more time to input… that’s all I’m asking. 1 or 2 frames.
About ST:
Yes, but in ST you don’t get the chance to combo that often. The game relies much more on zoning and ground game, plus, the moves do enough damage as they are. There may be ST matches where there is not even one TOD combo scored, but you won’t find a SFIV match where not even one bnb combo is used. Just look at Sagat, you don’t even need any combos to be top notch with him in ST.
But enough of that, those are two different games. All I’m asking for is one or two frames more time. That would be cool
one frame link is a pain in the ass. tekken got much easier excution. you have all day to dish out a juggle, so you can get to the mindgames part faster instead of fretting about execution.
So, what’s the difference between false respect and real respect and who decides which is which? Are you trying to say it isn’t deserved respect? Perhaps, in your opinion it’s not deserved respect, but there’s no reason why your opinion should be hailed as the objective law, which would force us to not respect players who dedicate many hours to nail there execution. Personally, I think it’s something that deserves at least some respect.
Again, you’re placing certain things into arbitrary categories (competitive and single player), which really means nothing. I was unaware that execution can’t be considered a competitive skill, I certainly think it can. There are competitive events and sports where execution makes is really all that matters. The best example I could come up with would be drag racing. These racers practice so that they can hit the gas pedal within .001 seconds of the start light turning green and it’s an incredibly competitive environment.
I also find it funny that this whole little paragraph you wrote above this, is telling US why we want to be a street fighter champ. Don’t tell me why I want to be a street fighter champ, that’s something I can come up with on my own. The whole reason I want to be a street fighter champ is so that I can demonstrate my ability to outplay other people using my superior execution, strategy, and mind games.
They scewed him up this time around. 1 framers are the least of Claws worries. I’ve seen some matches Bebop played, and he definitely wins without ridiculous 1f combos…
