Still seeing people put Viper in any spot other than the top of the top tier.
People are still sleeping on her… This character is the only character in the game (save maybe Firebrand) who is outright broken. Not just Zero “fuck my life” OP, but totally broke.
would love to see the footage <3. any way that you can mark it in the archives?
THe thing is if you tech it you fall into Stranges Assist and get focused. Whole situation over again.
Only way I see to get out of it is if you have a character with fly, once you tech, go into Fly and dash out of there. Or like harleywastaken said, and invincible super like harddrive.
does Eye really last long enough for her to land from the tech and focus all the way up to lvl3? if so… lord.
Yup He calls it right when he goes for the grab so you get a full Eye. Once the Eye is gone you can probably jump out really fast, but the Focus catches your toes. And If you try to Super while he focuses he can go into EC and DHC . Viper is so Broken! Which is why Im picking her back up =D
Only reason shes not top of the top is because it takes execution to be deadly with her. Unlike say Everyones favorite character Wesker where you can do a basic ABCS MMHS OTG MMHS OTG Super for like 700 - 800k -_-
Sheesh if that was the case Chris would be Top of the Top too. Chris is too good in this game
I don’t really feel combo execution is that much of the barrier. Her basic combos that can still kill most of the relevant cast with a DHC aren’t THAT hard to do.
The bigger issue is that she doesn’t have Wesker, Zero or Dante sized normals that she can just throw around like an idiot and expect to kill characters. All of her big hit box dumb shit revolves around her special moves (which all have lengthy start up compared to other character’s normals) and that forces her neutral game into something that requires a good bit of spacing and understanding to utilize. You can’t just throw seismos at people and expect to hit confirm off every one and kill people day one. Sometimes you’ll just get dashed in c.M’d by Wesker or air dashed H’d by Dante before that even happens.
If she had dumb shit normals people would be picking her up easy regardless of her execution. Her stair step loop stuff requires some real execution but the basic stuff she has that can kill people isn’t that hard. It’s just people play her for a bit, see that her normals get trounced on by Zero and Wesker and go back to those characters since it’s much easier to play their neutral game.
LOL. That’s what I like about this game. Anytime people deal with anything strong in this game the broken card gets pulled out. It’s an old game with no restrictions, all out war on the streets.
I think at bare minimum once people (specifically PR Rog) learn to respect your Strider assist more they’ll do better off. Viper and Zero do so strong by themselves that Strider assist just covers that aerial spot and forces them to be extremely grounded about their approach. Once people learn the neutral game better then you’ll most likely have to worry about snaps on your Viper and losing Strider since you don’t even really need XF to kill off Strider after he comes in. Which would then kill off your main neutral assist. PR Rog should have been pulling snaps on your Strider anytime he touched Viper so that Spencer can get a chance to actually move around in the air again.
Although what was interesting to watch from that set was how effective even regular ryuenjin assist was.
Set starts at about 7:17:30.
Edit: Make that 7:19:00. I’m free.
Thanks to Jufo for finding the location in the video. ^.^
My team is really really dumb. I already knew Viper/Strider was dumb, but it’s starting to look more and more like what I felt was one of the best team synergy in vanilla: Wesker/Magneto/Phoenix compared to Viper/Zero/Strider.
At the beginning I have Wesker/Viper paired with their best possible assist.
If they kill Wesker they have to fight Magneto/Phoenix, a self sufficient team that can accomplish its goals since Magneto doesn’t need an assist to accomplish his goals and can battery forever. If I lose Viper I get Zero/Strider where Zero who doesn’t really need an assist to accomplish his goals can kill off of zoning patterns and still has an assist that dominates space for him to the point that most characters don’t really have a way in. I think I’ve played to the point and well enough where people have to stop saying that Zero gets nothing from Strider, Vajra is busted for a character with that many control options.
If they kill Magneto I likely get dark Phoenix even if I was getting totally bodied. If they kill Zero I guarenteed get dark Strider with orbs which although not quite Dark Phoenix is still ridiculous and hard/impossible to deal with in a lot of situations. It’s the worst case scenario, but it is still scary for the opponent.
If Phoenix gets snapped and killed I’m left in DHC glitch order so I can use the meter I intended for Phoenix. If my Strider gets snapped then they have to fight Strider with an assist that makes him unblockable on offense and the two best dry tag characters to change him from a high mix up low damage character into a high damage high mix up character along with having one of the best DHCs out by doing Legion to sougenmu getting a free left right and potentially an unblockable set up since I have Viper assist available.
If it’s down to Zero/Viper I have self sufficient Zero with one of the assists that works exceptionally well for him if he goes in, and dark Viper should that fail. It’s fail safe after fail safe that stay in place with this team. ^.^
Balrog thought my Strider was the only problem after a few XF3 wins with him, but vajra assist really is the best assist in the game for Viper, he makes her go from stupid to pants on head retarded. The only issue is that snapping Strider means you’re sparing Viper which is the most miserable of all possible ideas. I recommend killing Viper and having the last hit be a snap so you can not fight dark Viper but also prevent me from getting that Vajra assist for Zero. He was snapping a bit, it helped sometimes but he was left at a meter deficit and when both of us rely on having invincible BS out of gauge that can be as miserable of a situation as having me with vajra. It’s really hard to have a right game plan against the team. >.<
Ryuenjin assist is good for Viper, she gets a confirm and tons of gauge off of it.
However complicated it is he’s gotta get Strider out of there before XF3 time. The team is too powerful from the front where it’s guaranteed that Strider will only need to kill one or 2 people and he’s perfect for doing that. He only really struggles against 3 people and it’s damn near impossible for your team to not kill at least one character. He’s gotta get out of the box somehow because Spencer can’t move in the air like he needs to unless he rushes the Strider assist down or snaps him in.
That’s the whole point of Marvel really is that you make your team so he has to deal with something stupid no matter what, but it’s damned certain whatever he has to deal with is not as stupid as Zero with XF3 Strider and Vajra assist behind him. If you’re not building a team that way then it’s just not optimal period. Ideally no matter who dies you want something stupid going on.
You gotta pick the lesser of two stupids and Dark Viper or Dark Zero is the lesser over Zero with Strider assist and XF3 Strider waiting.
Are there any videos on how to properly to the Step Loop ?? Or any other VIper tutorials in general??
There are very few people who seem to construct their team so that no matter what happens it’s still a problem. This is one of the main reasons I advocate weasel shot so often, I feel tatsu is a better assist, but if it’s down to anchor Akuma I like anchor Dante way better for every possible circumstance.
Wait, why is weasel shot so good? I feel like I’m missing something, I always just saw it as a poor man’s beam assist.
I just wanted to quote this for truth.
I’ve felt that for a long time, people don’t put enough thought into their overall team construction. They don’t have redundancies they don’t have the best synergies. Most times they just seem like sticking good characters together, or just picking things that have some very obvious synergism (but not the most or best).
Weasel shot is the step between plasma beam and cold star, it’s bloody beast. IMO it’s top 3 assists for Magneto in the game.
while we’re in the QFT mood… the above is not something you see very often in these forums, so i’d just like to highlight it - not saying that better execution isn’t going to up your game, but i’ve seen too many ‘go learn a simpler character first’ posts about Viper to not chime in.
Thx man!
As for weasel shot for viper, i have to agree that it is kind of like a ghetto coldstar with shorter lockdown, but with near fullscreen range and the fast startup of a beam assist. Switched from jam session to weasel shot the day i picked up strider as anchor (which was basically day 1 in ultimate) anf don’t wanna miss it anymore.
I’m going to need further explanation, especially since I run Viper/Dante/Strider. Does it really lock down for long enough to be worth mentioning? I’ve been running with JS. Even if both JS and Vajra are AA assists, they just have too many differing uses in different situations for them to be called redundant.
It’s a question of how you use it. For me jam session had two uses in vanilla: to cover her blind spot, and as a combo extender. Both of these things are now done by vajra. I never really used JS in the neutral, that job was done by disruptor back in vanilla, so there was no real reason for me to not switch to WS after switching mags for strider in ultimate.
Weasel shot covers the horizontal space really well and the lockdown is quite long enough to get two high low mixups in, plus you can use it to make burning kicks safe, just like gottnoskill does it with task arrows. It also allows for easy ass relaunches in the corner and gets you three TK reps easily midscreen, since it leaves the opponent standing.
Like i said, it’s a question of personal preference. JS is still great, so if you’re more comfortable with it, stick with JS.
Yeah, see, I use jam Session for Unblockables, lockdown, and AA. Everyone says “Vajra does AA better”, but that’s just not necessarily the case. When your opponent is jumping in, JS is much better of an AA. What makes Vajra so good is that it’s a tracking AA. But as a result, it doesn’t control any space. You opponent has no real reason to try to avoid or be cautious around a specific area, because Vajra can happen anywhere.
Weasel shot covers the range from light seismo all the way to heavy seismo and keeps them from being on the ground there for approx 1/2 cold star’s duration, if they’re there you get to do things for free and they have no choices against it. It’s definitely worth it. Think of it as another strong tool to control the ground. I actually like Jam session enough that I could justify either with Viper, but for a lot of characters like Wesker or Magneto you get way more out of having weasel shot!