174

I played a good guile yesterday. I put him several time in the corner. He wasn’t moving.
Ok st mp force him to block but since he doesn’t move what is the point. I build meter of course but i’m pushed back so i have to walk forward again and again.
At some point i fear to be predictable.

I baited some Psychic flashkick though

The gap between landing a st mp and land jabs/low shorts/throws is noticeable. Usually he have time to score a cr lk or cr mk

I have to admit i really don’t know how use stand mp. It’s like Ryu and his hado trap…

If someone can make a video stand mp 101, he is welcome ^^

175

so basically u r using auto guard to protect the input dont u? cuz thats why the late tech works afaik. In the other side playing chun in ST es basically st.mp all day, so to me at least its not a new thing to learn, so yeah just get used to use it a lot, not like mashing it but its a poke with gdlk range right?, so use it like that…

176

yes the “auto guard”. It’s not new and i think a lot of people use it for tech a throw but in my case i was limited to those situations only.

If someone jump on me i block and i input a throw. On wake up, i block and i press throw.

But i never practice to use this technique in other situations, you see ?

For example versus a high jump in from viper, i try to switch my habit to block+throw by block+mp.
And now with back mk to deals with far range pokes of my opponent.

In ST (HDremix in my case) i was using cr mk all day :confused:

177

cr.mk its one hell of a godlike tick in ST (the legend state that u can be counter thrown while doing it: "In the days of SF2 classic, when Guile player Nosuke was playing with Dhalsim against Chun-Li, he discovered that a deep thrust kick could beat wake-up throws. So he said “hey, Hama, this thrust kick is like Chun-Li’s crouching forward in that it can’t be countered with a throw.”), but that´s the main use of cr.mk in ST, in the other side st.mp´s fast, good blockstun and awesome range, u can do blockstrings with 2 to 3 st.mps and end it with throw if u dont want to go for a 4th st.mp… but yeah i can go on with this but that´s not the point here :confused: [/offtopic]

178

Trade

Hello.

Want to talk about the trade system.
In this game, we play a lot with habit.
If i trade a focus level 2 with a normal move i KNOW that i can just walk and throw my opponent before he fall on the ground.
People know that you can juggle U2 after df lk even on trade with a jump in.
Fei long players are aware now that if they trade a rekka, they can score another and do a 4 hit combo rekka (Mago Style)
Etc

Some months ago it’s happen to me something.
I was challenging the wake up of boxer with cr mk.
My original plan was to try to hit confirm with my super. Boxer was in the corner and my charge was ready.
Wake up ex dash piss me off and i was wondering if i could punish them with cr mk xx super in reaction.

So my opponent wake up, i did my cr mk. He didn’t reversal ex dash this time. I notice my cr mk hit him so i started to do my super but at the same time i saw that he hit me too.
Yes we trade.
At this point i was so focus to hit confirm into super that i let my super go anyway.
So since i get hit, my super come out in reversal. In my head i was thinking “Shit !!” and…

The super connected… 10 hits combo + KO

At first i was happy but i knew i was lucky so i didn’t bother to really understand “what happened”

Until “now”.

So let’s look !!
I trade my cr mk and succeed to combo my super (2 frames startup)
When we look into frame data we generally only bother about startup and frame advantage on hit and block (at least in my case)
For counter hit you look the frame advantage on hit and you add +3 or +1

But for trade it’s different.
Both players are hit in the same time. There no more recovery of the move.
It’s all about hitstun.
In the first frame data the blockstun and hitstun were provided on the wiki but for super street fighter most characters don’t have those informations.

Fortunately blockstun and hitstun are fixed with some exception though
Light moves give 13 frames hitstun
Medium moves give 16 frames hitstun
high moves give 21 frames of hitstun

In my case i traded a medium move with a light move from Boxer. So the trade can be represented like that :
16 vs 13
I have +3 frames advantage after this trade and it’s why my super connected.

So Ok i get it cool ! And after ?

If you are curious you can compare a trade between high moves and light moves for example.
21 vs 13
…
…
…

+8 frames advantage.

Any decent player who play Chun Li, when you say +7 or more it’s the alarm for… ULTRA 1 ^^

So yes you get it !! If you trade a high move with a light you can do a REVERSAL Ultra 1 and the combo is guaranteed

Again for curiosity what happen if i trade an hazan shu ?
The hitstun is 25 frames (24 frames on crouch opponent)

24 vs 13
+11

If you trade with a medium (cr mp for example)
24 vs 16
+8

Trade look random in this game. It’s not as if someone can base his game on trade at first.
But in reality those informations can change your way to play.

How many time you tried to do a cr hp on someone and you ended by trade your move and this trade abort your offense.

How many time you try to setup a counter hit and you get a trade instead ?

In this game there is several situations.
You score a hit because your opponent didn’t block
You hit the guard because your opponent blocked
You score a counter hit because you hit your opponent before he hit you
You trade
You are hit

When someone wake up.it’s not always a good idea to go for a meaty move.The game let your opponent mash anything and he will block your meaty first (that’s the engine of the game)
So someone who mash buttons don’t care about your meaty. You don’t help yourself when you choose this option.

A non meaty options can lead to a hit / counter hit / trade.
This option is good for you.
Of course he can choose to block but a meaty will not beat this too.
He can choose to wakeup with an invincible move and beat you (but a meaty will not change that too

The point of all this is just to show that trying to go for a counter hit is sometimes better and can lead occasionally to a"better" situation : Trade

I talked about wake up but it can be after a blocked jump in, etc…

Let’s play the game of Ryu or Akuma with their delayed cr mp during blockstun ^^

PS :Some normals do 22 hitstun. Some medium do more than 16 hitstun too and specials are not fixed.

PS : Sorry for this Frenglish ^^;

179

cross up j.hk and j.hp how ?

is there any know setups or is it a corner thing only

180

Easiest set up I know for cross up fierce is HSU, cr.jab then jump straight away and press fierce twice as if timing a normal attack (Vs Ryu and characters in the same hitbox group), its easy to set the spacing by just doing st.strong xx HK HSU, cr.jab…

However this set up pretty impractical but it does work, also from this set up if you press fierce one it hits in front, if you press it twice it hits behind… Jump in training set the dummy to autoblock (cos everyones gonna block a HK HSU right) and try it, not useful at all which is why i never posted it but it does set up for both front and cross up from jumping fierce

181

i’ll try that , but it seems like that’s just asking for a dp or a focus ,

I’ve been trying to find a setup as I’ve done it a few times but never in training mode

182

Yep this is why its impractical and not useful

183

Hi, back when Chun Li still had +1 after lvl 1 focus I thought an interesting way to set up this trade situation would be to lvl 1 focus dash in with LK Legs.

Since legs has 24 hitstun, a trade with a jab would give her 11 advantage.

184

Nice i never thought about legs.

My only concern with normal legs is it’s not safe on block versus crouch character (except point blank with the help of cr hp).

And people mash throw after a focus level 1 even versus chun li.

I have a setup though but i cannot use it.

I do cr lp on block follow by cr hp.

The best is to do that max range. Your opponent think he is safe to mash something after the cr lp on block since you are a little far but your cr hp will counter hit or trade with him.
If you counter hit, you open his guard. If you trade you have your Ultra 1

My idea is to do cr lp, cr hp xx legs on block until i get a counter hit or a trade.

A setup like that can change the way people mash cr tech versus chun li. I think about Dictator or claw for example.
Cr lp on block, walk into throw never work versus him

It can be also : Jump in hk (on block), cr lp (block), cr hp xx legs.

My trouble is i think i’m the only one chun li who cannot do cr hp xx legs… :confused:

so if i try this in real match, i end my offense with a cr hp (2 hit) on block. It’s not very cool even if Chun li is safe (-2)

185

upon testing last night i found a setup against ryu which was a forward throw, then wiff a f+mk then do a jump hk and it crosses up

i did it about 10 times ina row then went to test on other characters then never managed it again :confused:

i think its because you have to do it as soon as the throw ends , but its hard not to walk forward after the throw if you want to f+mk straight away

/

@cnul

i’ve been doing that you can also do c.lp x2 and you will still be in range

also legs>c.lp>c.hp>legs

if you do hk legs into mk legs you are to far away though

builds alot of emter aswell

186

i have a weird idea, dunno if someone have posted something like this, but from what i´ve read so far deejay (and other FB characters) get CH´ed when they throw fireballs, so idk if u know that u can link a hosenka from a fadc ch hasanshu (its not hard if u can do dash ultra), finally if the above is true (FB chars getting CHed) this set up might be very important to learn imo… just saying

187

i was reading an interview with nemo, mago, itabashi, hiropon, ksk and tokido.
Nemo said fireball from deejay recover 3 frames faster now.

In SSF4 it was 27 frames of recovery. So if Nemo is right, Deejay recover in 24 frames now.

Hazan shu startup is 23 frames for lk, 25 frames for mk and 26 for HK/EX

That means in reaction, Deejay is safe versus hazan shu. He will always recover in time.

But i remember someone here said now Guile and Deejay are vulnerable to focus level 1 because a counter hit focus level 1 lead to crumple

2 parts :

http://samjkim.wordpress.com/2010/12/28/gods-garden-x-4gamer-interview-ae-first-impressions/
http://samjkim.wordpress.com/2010/12/28/gods-garden-x-4gamer-interview-ae-first-impressions-22/

188

You wouldn’t be able to FADC it and Ultra. You probably wouldn’t have enough time to charge, and even if you did, as far as I know it is impossible to Ultra 1 after an FADC – that’s why Kikoken FADC Ultra 1 doesn’t work.

However, I managed to link sweep after Counter-hit Hazanshu, so assuming they are both still 7 frame startup, you MIGHT reasonably be able to link Ultra after a CH Hazanshu.

189

i really need a cam ;_;, i can link u1 from a fadc ch hasanshu, u only need to buffer the motion by doing qcb, hold a little back then push kicks, the rest works like a dash ultra, and the reason for the kiko into ultra dont work is cuz u cant use the same charge to do 2 moves, with hasanshu u r buffering the charge its different

190

That doesn’t make sense, because you can Kikoken xx Super. In fact, if you set the meter in Training Mode to Infinite, I’m 99% sure that you can even Kikoken FADC Super. Just not Ultra.

191

You both right and you both wrong ^^.

The truth is you cannot compare.

Framedata said :

super cancel = fadc
If a move is super cancelable, that means you can fadc too. (that’s why some ex moves are super cancellable)

In framedata you can read kikoken lp is super cancellable after the frame 20 until frame 21

but the starup is 14 so you wait 6 frames to make a cancel

For kikoken mp, it’s after frame 17. Same for kikoken hp and ex

To resume, 20 frames or 17 frames after you use your charge (kikoken), you activate your super (super cancel)

Now compare that with dash ultra or fadc ultra (malvadisco example)
You use your charge when you make a dash forward (15 frames or 14 frames with a focus) and you activate your ultra at the end of the dash.

Now compare that to kikoken fadc ultra 1

You use your charge for kikoken
20 frames after, you do an FADC (super cancel ability)
FADC means 4 frames lost before you could do a dash forward
Dash forward after an FADC means 14 frames.

So make the calcul. 48 frames. Do you think the game is friendly enough to let you activate your ultra 1 after that ?

192

i see, make sense to me :B

193

Ok i have a lot of things to say but i will not write a novel this time lool.

Neutral jump lk vs neutral jump mk

Neutral jump lk has a nice hitbox. By nice i mean the active frame is far front of the sprite of his legs. Plus she has no vulnerable hitbox in this active frame.
I think this move is good to deal with attack which come from above and front.

Note to myself : Try to use this move versus Zangief, T Hawk, Dudley or Sagat jump in. demon flip from akuma, etc. In fact any stupid jump in from your opponent -__-

Blockstun = 8
Hitstun = 11
startup = 3
active = 7

Neutral Jump Mk.
This move look like the LK version but in fact there is difference.
First difference is the startup. 3 for Lk and 4 for MK.

2nd difference is again about the startup. Chun li take more risk with MK cause she move her leg forward (during 1 frame). In LK version it’s not the case, she just move her leg above directly.

3rd Difference, the active frame is more lower than lk version (but same range). That mean she can hit under her. I remember in vanilla i was beating lariat with neutral jump mk sometimes.

Blockstun = 11
Hitstun = 15
startup = 4
active = 6

Neutral jump lp vs neutral jump mp

Neutral jump lp has a nice range, good hitbox above but “slow” startup (6 frames). Looks good for instant jump lp versus a far jump in.
Blockstun = 8
Hitstun = 11
startup = 6
active = 6

Neutral jump mp is the best attack to hit under you.
Note to myself, try to use that versus Cammy or Rufus when they force you to jump and punish you with a normal move on the ground under you. Or versus the godlike cr mk from Juri.

Blockstun = 11
Hitstun = 15
startup = 4
active = 3