@Saturius I have difficulties to use Kikosho efficiently. You can cancel so many things with it, you have unblockable setups… you have to be ready like 200% to convert the damage and make it really scary. But I kinda like it. Even if the quick version “feels” somehow weak and too fast (KO with Kikosho at first frame doesn’t event show the ball, lol).
On the other hand, VT1 duration is buffed, and you have f.HK CC, so it’s possible to use it twice in a round, if you land a few CCs.
She’s definitely one of very few characters who has two equally useful Triggers now.
I’m mostly using Kikosho for YOLO stuff right now because throwing out HP and cancelling into Kikosho (after the first activation) isn’t a blockstring and lots of people get hit by it. If you have CA on deck that’s more than 30% for some dumb safe-on-block stuff. At some point I need to find some actual good usage for it but right now this is doing the trick.
Kikosho is good but I just can’t make it work. Despite f.hk now being a CC, the only way you’re getting 3 bar triggers consistently is by getting that ass beat down, and by then I am so far down on life that the damages and openings I get from Kikosho just can’t make up the differences enough.
I am having a hard time finding any high damage conversions off of f.hk. It seems that I’m getting more damage (and sometimes less meter usage) from just st.hk.
Also, not sure if anyone else has figured this out, but it seems that vt2 in neutral is hella oppressive and forces neutral play from your opponent. I know that people aren’t too keen here on vt2 for damage output due to needing lots of ex resources, but it seems to be an interesting dynamic in certain matchups.
dash > cr.lp > st.mp > cr.mk xx MK.SBK meterless
walk forward > cr.hp xx MK.Legs > cr.lk xx EX.Legs with bar
No idea which CC is better for CC punish opportunities
If anything f.HK is easier to convert. I don’t know if it’s online or my execution (probably a bit of both) but I regularly mess up CC->dash combos so I’m glad f.HK gives me something to work with if I want something easy in a pinch.
If you are going for a punish then certainly st.hk is the way to go. It is a faster normal so it will be a lot more forgiving. The followup combo is the same meterless.
If you are in vt1 then 100% st.hk as well.
Some F+HK CCs in VT1:
-F+HK, F+HK, cr. LP, st. MP, cr. MK xx MK SBK (381 damage)
-F+HK, walk up, V-skill, stomp x 3, j. HP, land, Air EX Legs (394 damage)
I think these give more for a midscreen DP punish than st. HK can give you. In the corner though, st. HK is definitely gonna give more with the HK juggles (which I think I’ve only had the opportunity to pull off like 10-20 times last season tbh).
You can do the CC F+HK -> walk up V-skill outside of V-trigger as well, but the timing is stricter.
–Also the corner jump-in combo (like for after someone is stunned or something) with EX Kikoken while VT1 is active does a shitload of damage with that SBK buff.
-J. HP, B+HP xx EX Kikoken, cr. MK xx HK SBK. (434 damage).
Yeah, noticed that as well. Does more damage than the double Legs combo and only uses one bar. Pretty good.
I personally prefer VT1 by a fair margin. Kikosho isn’t easy to use but even a lot of the Kikosho users users I have seen just st.hp a lot and pop it without confirming, or fish with sweep xx minis. Also i find that I win or lose plenty of rounds having had the ability to use VT1 but not VT2, particularly as I am a V-Reversal heavy player… Most interesting aspect of VT2 to me is the corner side switch potential, though off of minis the reset leaves you at only +15.
St.hk CC is a better dp punish when not in VT1 (st.hk does more damage than f+hk) unless you want to go for f+hk into VSkill for Vmeter I guess.
I agree. With the timer buff, unless some crazy tech comes about with VT2, slide into turn every light and medium attack into a bnb for a decent time is a good deal. Still also get the nice option of having all of your normals tear through standard armor and your fireball travelling full screen. Plus more damage off anti airs with juggles. Oh and that nearly useless ability where your b+HP becomes a projectile hit box.
She has 950 health and stun with a decent crush counter now so she can get those 2 bars pretty quick. Plus not worry as much if she has to burn V Reversal. Still don’t think Chun is supposed to be a 3 bar unga comeback type character to make VT2 warranted. There’s cheaper 3 bar triggers any way.
God dammit, I still want a better throw range for Chun lol. Probably my biggest annoyance when playing.
I feel you, I I like to throw a lot and I like to air legs. A better throw range would play better with my 50/50.
I agree that Kikosho doesn’t seem like a great 3 bar trigger. I mean looking at some of the absolute gorilla 3 bars that came out with AE it feels kind of lacking in comparison.
Honestly though i don’t really the direction AE took some Triggers with armour and guard breaks. Can go real ham with some of them. Not mentioning any names of people who may or may not make car noises.
I came back after leaving the game since the Chun nerf in Season 2. I have been trying out new Chun and she seems solid - the way she should have been at the beginning of the Season 2. Part of me misses the Season 1 Chun with those chunks of damage she dealt, but at least now she has a similar tool sets. She is not going to be overpowering as she was in the Season 1, but at least players will not feel hobbled by executions.
One thing to note is that f.hk CC only fills 1/3 of a bar of v-gauge. It’s also 18 frame start up and -2 if blocked on the first active frame.
f.hk and c.hk are 1/3
b.hp and st.hk are 1/2
Chun’s best buff for me so far is b.hk. I can AA deep jump ins now and do some decent damage in the process.
I’m liking Kikosho just from a personal preference view. The v-meter is tough though. Chun lacks v-skill, CC, and health to get it working.
That said Kikosho is great for turning pokes into big damage. A benefit over VT1 is that the opponent can’t just wait it out as it lasts a long time.
Like VT1 it also deals a lot of damage in the corner.
j.hk b.hp kikosho kikosho kikoken kikosho kikoken kikosho CA is 521dmg/525 stun. There is probably a way to optimize that further.
I think the guard break property, like an overhead, should be used sparingly. The threat of it is useful and there are cases where it can be forced (like after CC sweep).
A big buff to VT1 is how good b.hk is. In v-trigger b.hk puts them in a juggle state. Getting a combo off of an AA is huge. It makes her pokes even more dangerous b/c the opponent will be afraid to jump.
My big problem with kikosho is 3 bars. Its still early, maybe we get some more tech in time but atm i can only say “too little too late”.
Both MOV and Humanbomb repping Chun in the Top 8 in EVO Japan.
Good to see the Chuns in top 8 even though they basically did not win matches once they hit top 8. Guile is still rough, Akuma is still problems and Menat doesn’t look like it’s worth trying.
Humanbomb also mentioned that MOV has thrown in the towel on Chun. He’s moving up the tier list even after the buffs.
Chun really isn’t worth it in this meta I don’t think. You would need someone with punks ability to really make her work. Like you NEED to hit the fmp ex legs CH conversion and you NEED to be able to confirm cr.mk into legs consistently. Even if you can do those things, that’s not all you need. It enough ex meter to do that all day so you also NEED to have some/or a good amount of the oki situations to go your way.
Without those confirms and without good conversions on your oki, Chun is just pushing shit uphill.
She still has the 3 deadly problems:
No tick throw
Free as fuck to fireballs
People can just baxkaway from her pressure basically for free if she’s not in cr.mk range.
Me personally if I could do it, my strategy would be to poke from midrange like most chuns do, but use the cr.mk confirm once she gets in. That will make people not want to back away from her as much and open up her CH/throw game.
The key here is to not waste the confirm on neutral buffers or neutral confirms. To much goes on in neutral for her to really get the mindgames going from doing it there. She really needs for that upclose pressure to be better and more consistent so use the confirm only on upclose offense.
She’s still got more latent power than what what was shown in this tournie, but not THAT much more unless people can make her upclose offense better. I mean this is a character that is trying to poke against fireballs… that’s just not going to get the W, unless the chun player can neutralise the fireball game somehow or make her offense so good that once she gets that one chance to get past the fireball she makes it count better than she is currently doing.