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<blockquote class=“Quote”>
<div class=“QuoteAuthor”><a href="/profile/7446/Wasted">Wasted</a> said:</div>
<div class=“QuoteText”>I tried playing Team Capo, but Elena just feels like a really shitty character.  I must be missing something.<div><br></div><div>Christie/Lili is doing really well for me.   Christie = All meter, Lili = All damage gems (using EVO/system presets).</div><div><br></div><div>Christie is a better point character than Lili.  Infinitely better footsies, great hit confirms. Lili’s only good foostie tools are s.mp and f+MK -> MP, whereas Christie has the midrange on lock.</div><div><br>Lili also makes better use of meter than Christie, so keeping Christie in front is more logical.</div><div><br></div><div>Lili also has a better tag ender than Christie, in terms of raw damage.  Christie locks people in the corner, then brings in Lili to finish them off.</div></div>
</blockquote>

I hate to change the focus of the forum, but why do you think Elena is shitty…?<br>She has two moves that kill crouch techs and crouching attacks. Weird jump arc + ULTRA weird super jump arc (almost marvel-esque). She has an easy time vs projectile characters and a good dp… CADC overhead= a nice amount of damage. Insane corner mixup. Command overhead that leaves her at +3/4/5/10 and great payoff for 3 out of 4 of them.Her amazing backdash pretty close to Xiaoyu standards. Even vanilla she destroyed rolls with her Rhino Horn oki. I don’t know that seems crazy to call her shitty.<br>

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<font face=“Arial, Verdana”><span style=“line-height: normal;”>What pressure?  Round Arch and close HK are both -1 on block, and s.LK is -2.  That’s cool, but nothing spectacular compared to Law or Lili.</span></font><div><span style=“line-height: normal; font-family: Arial, Verdana;”><br></span></div><div><span style=“line-height: normal; font-family: Arial, Verdana;”>Projectiles are largely irrelevant in this game, given the massive shift towards the Tekken cast.</span><br></div><div><div style=“font-family: Arial, Verdana; line-height: normal;”><br></div><div style=“font-family: Arial, Verdana; line-height: normal;”>Elena’s jump arc is not weird.  It’s basically the same as 3S, nothing that can’t be adjusted to.</div><div style=“font-family: Arial, Verdana; line-height: normal;”><br></div><div style=“font-family: Arial, Verdana; line-height: normal;”><span style=“font-family: ‘lucida grande’, ‘Lucida Sans Unicode’, tahoma, sans-serif; line-height: 1.7em;”>That +3/4/5/10 overhead is a SPECIAL.  And a stupidly slow one at that, just like it was in 3S. We’re talking SF4 Oni slash kind of slow.  28/32/25/22 frame start up slow.  Where’s the effective mixup there?</span></div></div><div style=“font-family: Arial, Verdana; line-height: normal;”><span style=“font-family: ‘lucida grande’, ‘Lucida Sans Unicode’, tahoma, sans-serif; line-height: 1.7em;”><br></span></div><div style=“font-family: Arial, Verdana; line-height: normal;”><span style=“font-family: ‘lucida grande’, ‘Lucida Sans Unicode’, tahoma, sans-serif; line-height: 1.7em;”>I guess I just haven’t seen any good matches of Elena, outside of Jwong, and all he does is HK -> LK frame trap.</span></div><div style=“font-family: Arial, Verdana; line-height: normal;”><span style=“font-family: ‘lucida grande’, ‘Lucida Sans Unicode’, tahoma, sans-serif; line-height: 1.7em;”><br></span></div><div style=“font-family: Arial, Verdana; line-height: normal;”><span style=“font-family: ‘lucida grande’, ‘Lucida Sans Unicode’, tahoma, sans-serif; line-height: 1.7em;”>On the subject of her low crushes - what does that really matter?  Everyone has a low crush.  Not that it really matters when most poking is done with moves that can be blocked low.</span></div>

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Dude… I can’t even comprehend how crazy that line of thought is. So because she isn’t spectacular like law or lili she is shit? I play a lot of characters in this game (including Lili) none of them feel like shit to me (maybe Ibuki but that’s a different story). Jack-X projectile DP says hi. Raven says hi (2nd place in winter brawl) I’ve seen a bunch of Ravens online as of late too. How are projectiles irrelevant if Alisa is almost always Upper high tier on most people’s tier list? it can’t be because of her great normals… I guess Juri is top tier because of her normals too then… <br><br>How is a vastly different super jump arc from her normal jump arc not weird in a game where people who do not even know that there is a super jump…? =|<br><br>25 frames+5 on block you get knockdown 28 frames+3 on block you get 380+ damage? Xiaoyu 22 frames+ plus 3 on block…Chun li pre-2k13 Hazanshu 24/26/27/28 , -2/0/0/0 unlaunchable (complained about because the pressure options it gave her) MUST BE BAD?!  It hops lows does, great chip, OTG crossup, safe meaty unlaunchable. o.o Man she even has a 12 frame overhead…I shouldn’t need to explain her mixup game (a 20 frame one that is +0 on block). She has a corner 50/50 off of walking after a certain move… <br><br>cr.lk 4 frame start up +2 on block… st.Lk = 3 frame start up -2 almost Cody vanilla cr.lk range… You can punish a range of tools that a lot of other characters can not.<br> <br>Rolento-esque AA (sadly not 100% vs King, but vs every other char a guarantee) st.LP/MP<br><br>And there are definitely better Elena’s outside of Justin Wong. Don’t get me wrong he is a good player in general. But he uses barebones Alisa tech and day 1 Elena tech. <br><br>I don’t understand if your last sentence was a criticism or a genuine question o.o. HK and b+Hk have low crush potential (which means they bypass lows). True everyone has a launcher that low crushes, but her moves leave her at -1. So to compare a Launcher that is -34 to a move that leaves her at -1 is crazy. Also you can not launcher her pressure. <br><br>I mean there is nothing wrong with not liking a character, but saying they are shitty is a bit of a stretch especially when (and I hate to use tier lists…) on tier lists she’s mostly on the same tier as Christie. And there was before her corner mixups were found… =|<br><br><br>

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<div>I haven’t faced a single Raven online, far as I can remember.  He’s one of the exceptions to the rule. Alisa’s projectiles aren’t special, aside from their arc. <span style=“font-family: ‘lucida grande’, ‘Lucida Sans Unicode’, tahoma, sans-serif; line-height: 1.7em;”>Juri isn’t top tier in this game. She barely deserved to be called so in vanilla.  But that’s another discussion.  Calling up Chun’s old Hazanshu is irrelevant, since we’re not in Vanilla anymore.</span></div><div><div><br></div><div>Something is only “weird” until you adjust to it.  If people forget that super jumps exist in this game, that’s their own fault.<br></div><div><br></div><div>If Elena’s game is overheads and low crushes, then the answer is simple - DON’T USE LOW ATTACKS.  Elena has barely any low attacks to be afraid of.</div><div><br></div><div><span style=“font-family: ‘lucida grande’, ‘Lucida Sans Unicode’, tahoma, sans-serif; line-height: 1.7em;”>Again, I haven’t seen these good Elenas.  I can’t find them.  And yeah, call me entitled, but if you’re gonna make a comparison, make it against what is generally accepted to be the best.  Elena is no Law, Lars or even Xiaoyu.</span><br></div><div><div><div><br></div><div>Sounds like there is more to her than what I thought, though - but again, I just don’t see what makes her truly scary or what she brings to the team when you pair her with Christie.</div></div></div></div>

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<br><blockquote class=“Quote”>
<div class=“QuoteAuthor”><a href="/profile/7446/Wasted">Wasted</a> said:</div>
<div class=“QuoteText”>…</div>
</blockquote>

<b>E/C<br>Elena has great mid range options. and she has 2 low crush moves
that lead into a combo. Also with same tech I discovered (shameless
plug) her corner game is scary.<br>Christie same old.<br>Both of them kinda do the same thing, but Elena has an easier time with zoners and blows up crouch techs.<br>Team builds meter fast, and Elena uses meter often.<br></b><br>Juri is often put around Lili’s tier on/above/below it’s subjective as of now. Lili and Law were the characters you stated. The vanilla Hazanshu is relevant as the point is it was over all worse than Elena’s mallet smash but what saved it was the fact that it was unlaunchable+ small hitbox. Now Elena’s Mallet smash is unlaunchable during it’s active hitting frames. <br>And dude Super Jump isn’t that much of a factor in this game for a lot of characters hell some of Christie’s oki set ups off of super jump weren’t found out until a week ago. it’s nothing drastic like 3S or even Marvel. Thus Elena stands out…<br>She handles zoners her corner OTG game is almost patch worthy. And if you want good Elena’s check out the Elena thread…? It’s like me saying there are no good Christie players. VH is on XBL I’m on PSN I see no other Christie players on PSN. That must mean Christie is bad. <br><i><br><b>Wasted:  I must be missing something.</b></i><div><br></div><div><b>Elena/Christie</b> is doing really well for me.  <b> Christie</b> = Meter, <b>Elena</b> = Meter (both 205,212,214)<br></div><div><br></div><div>Elena is a better point character than Christie.  Better footsies,
great hit confirms. Christie’s only good foostie tools are st.HP > CADC and LK > MK > MK, whereas Elena has the entire screen to move freely. She blows up crouch techs and lows up close and she doesn’t need to sit through fireball pressure. <br></div><div><br>Elena also makes better use of meter than Christie, so using meter gems and safe tags allow me to enhance this effect as well as giving Christie a reversal option.</div><div><br>Christie also has a better tag ender than Elena, in terms of raw damage.  Elena locks people in the corner using her amazing corner carry, then brings in Christie to to finish them
off.</div><div><br></div><div>Off a raw s.HP confirm from Christie, the
team gets <b>430/436 (!)</b> damage off a one-meter tag combo anywhere - it’s no
Law/Jin, but it’s close enough for me. stHP tc HP > HK > st.MP > MK Rhino horn > cr.MP > MK Rhino horn > Slide/ HK scratch wheel!<br>Best of all from this combo alone you build about half a bar back without the meter gems! Imagine when those 2 100% meter set ups trigger that’s 1.35 to 1.5 bars back!<br></div><br>Happy?<br>

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Not really.

You seem so obsessed with low crushes for some reason. Frame traps handle that job plenty well, with moves that are faster and lead to more damage.

By running Elena/Christie, you seem to be exchanging damage for an increased ability to punish something that a smart player won’t do (i.e. abuse low attacks vs Elena).

Why are you making a point that you can’t launcher Elena’s Mallet Smash? I don’t need to - it can be stuffed completely.

As a team, I simply don’t see the synergy between Elena and Christie. Chris can fill either first or second slots, but teaming her with a point Elena doesn’t seem efficient. From what I’ve seen of Team Capo, Christie ends up doing all the work. Better to ditch Elena for someone else, IMO.

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Last post on this as this is pointless since I’ve listed every functional advantage that this team has and you’re just being dismissive.

  • I’m getting 36-42 less damage off of a random st.HP hit confirm. I doubt Elena’s damage is that bad if her damage can in some instances rival Lili’s. 450+ meterless punish damage for lili. 424 for Elena.

  • You can stuff Juri’s overhead. You can stuff Lili’s F+HK. You can react to Lili’s qcf+K. You can stuff Nina’s overhead. You can stuff/react Xiaoyu’s overhead. I fail to see how that makes it less effective? Especially since it is a critical part of each of those characters’ gameplan.

  • Also a frame trap is not on equal terms with a low crush what the hell are you talking about? It’s a move that starts off with 90 damage that leads into a move that does 60 damage which bypasses 2 out of the of the opponents options and starts in 11/13 frames. The only character that I know that has frame traps that get more damage is Steve and Law. Kazuya’s Dorya had crush properties that made it almost impossible to Alpha counter in vanilla. Lili’s Andante had crush properties in vanilla which is you honestly couldn’t jump in on her.

-It’s like saying there is no synergy from Alisa/Jack. Guile/Raven. They both specialize in midrange. Elena can do close range and force an opponent to make mistakes alot easier than Christie. 12 frame overhead if they get hit twice your opponent might mash. (AFAIK I haven’t seen anyone react to her f+mk) b+mk Christie oki. Christie specializes in oki, mixups (for the most part this can almost be blocked entirely by standing and block) and midrange where she can keep her opponent out if necessary. Her ability to handle projectiles is kinda lacking (besides cr.mk, and far st.hk which isn’t all that great). Elena handles projectiles, builds vast amount of meter, and opens up the opponent while being frustrating.

Hell you didn’t have anything positive to say amount the character. You called her shitty right out the gate. Every point and advantage I list you’re like uhh that’s no big deal. 25 frame overhead that leaves her at plus 5 and it’s a SPECIAL (which does chip)? That’s no big deal Xiaoyu has a normal 22 frame but at -3/+2. 12 frame overhead that people can’t really react to? That’s no big deal Juri/Nina has a 15 frame one. You know what other characters were called shitty? Yoshimitsu and Bob. After Vulc and Coolguy invested some time they could’ve fooled me. :expressionless:

In fact you’ve said it yourself only good Elena you saw was Jwong who was coincidentally probably the only good Alisa player you saw. Despite not being in the top 5 (maybe not even top 8) and another Elena player taking fourth place. Elena top 4 @ winter brawl no big deal she’s shit. =|

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Don’t presume to know me or my viewing habits Jwong is a mediocre Alisa at best right now, he’s new.

Yup, no big deal. What makes Elena SCARY? Again, I’m seeing Christie do most of the work in Team Capo matches.

Elena has nothing that makes me afraid of her, hence she is shitty.

End of discussion.

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:expressionless: He’s new to Elena as well, but whatever keep sack straddling. /end rant =)

Edit for Civility.

Just because you don’t think a character is good it doesn’t mean that they are bad. And you should find better Elena players as Justin Wong IMO only played Rufus/Chun somewhat competently and there were still better Rufus and Chun players respectively. And honestly since Christie is such a solid character you can find any character IMO to compliment her in one of my teams I utilize Elena. It’s the same for Lili (I speak from experience) who is another amazingly solid character so really it doesn’t matter who the teammate is as long as they compliment your playstyle. People often state teams have synergy without stating what is the synergy and the playstyle it caters to. The fact that Elena can pressure you high with highs and lows outside of many characters’ poke and even sweep range is a huge advantage (both of her overheads have about the same range as Ryu’s cr.HK and so do many of her other options)in this game and Christie cannot really do that safely. Which is why this is optimal. And being on the level with you. Dude you picked up Lili 18 days ago and you haven’t shared tech or dropped any knowledge. Hell I’ve never even seen you on the SFxT boards ever…so why would you call an underutilized character shitty when you are now playing two of them (both of whom I think are pretty amazing in this game)?

Wheaton’s law bro.

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Thoughts on Christie/Lili? Is Christie fine on point? I’ve been running Christie with Lili anchor but I don’t know if I’m gimping either of their potentials. They are both by far my favourite characters.

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Just wondering if anyone had thoughts about Chun/Christie?

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I’m considering running Ken/Christie, combos into tatsumaki into switch can start her tc combo/mixup which imo is the reason to play her (without, she is just another character with ok normals)

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Hwo/Christie and Bob/Christie are excellent teams one averages around 450 for triple perchflop combos while the other gets about 489 for bar.

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what combos are you using to tag your team mate in with christie? Or switch cancel?

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I am currently trying Nina/Christie. I hope they have a good synergy.

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Currently using Christie with Asuka

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Rocking Ibuki and Christie

Haven’t decided on the order but Ibuki feels better as Anchor since she has meter to work with

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I’ve been testing some of the synergy of Ken/Christie a thought I might as well share it. (On a bus, nothing better to do)

Ken is a bit one dimensional with his combos, saying that, this is the dimension Christie likes so it’s a good start

Going from Ken the obvious option is his tatsumaki tag, I comboed with s.hp qcf.hp (will be referred as combo route) or cr.mp > s.hp tag (tag route), but I’m pretty sure you can even squeeze even j.rh there.

Midscreen I would say that burning more meter would be less efficient as both are not that damaging there. I would prefer going for Christie’s tekken mixups which is part of the reason to play her imo.

In the corner I’m not too sure yet which is the more optimized option. But here ken can use his damaging option (cr.mp x3 s.hp h.srk) so might be better to go for the tag route if you plan to burn only one meter.

The sweet thing is his juggle h.srk tag to Christie, just high enough to allow her to connect j.mp cr.hp ender (again oki or tag) ((I know vulcan likes the j.mp j.rh sweep but I prefer the chance for combo extending)

Last thing is midscreen tac, where I go for the s.mp cr.lp s.mk s.mk qcf.lk and oki, unless I want to keep it going with cr.lp cr.hp etc…

Christie to Ken is nothing too flashy, usually just something into qcf.m with tag, allowing Ken to go into his standard juggle (which is quite nice in the corner)

Still need to mess around with pandora stuff, should check both option of pandora into anti air into super (I hope Christie’s qcf.lp can do the trick as it supposed to have aa properties) and maybe something with the j.mp bounce.

Maybe some ex’s for “free” supers in combo idk…

Now just need to find people to play with.

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Guy/Christie combos, showing their individual combo potential as well as some combo synergy:

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So I notice that most of you have Christie as an anchor, which I think might be an aspect of high level play because on paper and in practice for me she has literally everything you need for a point in the D/B rank of play:

Good walkspeed/range/footsies
Easy and effective anti airs
Safe specials to buffer pokes from especially if the opponent does not know the matchup
Not a big dependency on meter
Strong oki to follow up advantage without meter
Ways around fireballs.

I’d say her biggest issue especially at point is the lack of a reversal.
So right now I am planning on Christie/Nina or Christie/Lei and just completely wrecking house with her fundamentals as I work my way through C rank.