You know what else works? Just playing the game and figuring it out as you go, its worked fine for me. You don’t need to rely on any charts whatsoever, I’ve looked at them before so no I’m not ignorant. I just don’t really care about it because again you have to actually hit those moves for them to provide any relevance.
Learning Matchups >>>> Frame data
Kich
1022
Right, but you seem to misunderstand, learning the match-up IS learning frame data. Stop. What the hell is wrong with people, since when are things so far to the extreme that people who look at frame data are somehow incompatible with people who don’t? As if learning frame data, as you seem to imply, means you can’t press a button. Here’s the only difference between the two situations: Instead of having to sit there for awhile and look for opportunities for your opponent to use that one move you’re looking to beat, then trying something, and if it works it works, and if it doesn’t you get rocked–you can browse through a chart after a match and notice “Oh, I could just do <insert move> to punish that.”
It’s not like people are sitting there counting frames of certain moves for christ’s sake, all it fucking is is having a memorized list (as every fucking person who ever takes any of this seriously does) of what punishes what (for example, there’s obviously more to it than that) so that WHEN you see it you know exactly what you can do punish their move. It takes that time spent playing the game, and removes all time wasted on experimenting, so that the time you do spend playing it, is spent improving.
You talk like knowing frame data is having a chart next to you that you have to consult every time anyone presses a button at you, like it’s some tool inferior players “rely” on to play. It’s offhand knowledge used to improve your game without having to spend the hours on every character learning what beats what.
Is it essential to know? No, because in the end anyone who takes the game seriously will know most of what punishes what anyways–but it’s stupid to not refer to it when you can’t seem to beat a certain move over waiting to face another person that plays that character and use that move or sit in training mode going through everything you’ve got to see what hits it. One takes about 20 seconds, the other just wastes time that you could be spending playing.
Ultimately, people who know frame data VS people that don’t are identical, one just took less time to learn the ins and outs of the moves than the other.
That’s awesome that Guile can win a match, but noone ever said that any match in the game is 10-0 if you can understand what that means. I don’t know what to tell you if anyone can see he needs improvement and the only thing your team has to back themselves up is “guile isnt popular in japan because he’s american,yet he’s not popular in america because noone’s figured him out” yet you sure as hell aren’t tearing up tornies either so WHERE is your evidence?
Do you mean this tourny?? http://http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5DofV9gGE60&feature=channel Where’s Guile?
Oh, i found him http://http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CPY3NtPTF4k&feature=video_response
Thought you said he won? Good thing flashkick doesn’t need a fix, should have used cr FP like all of the elite anonymous in here.
All i’ve seen you do is talk shit, you’re not even reading. You go and say that Gilley thinks Guile is fine when i directly quote him saying guys like you are going to get him ruined in the next version. No matter what anyone asks for, you have some sort of excuse. “omg i dont play on psn, omg now i don’t play on xbox either, omg i don’t enter tournies but i know way more than anyone who does, omg guile doesnt win tournies cuz no1 uses him”
Why so many excuses? When did i complain about matchups? What exactly makes you think you’re a competent Guile player? How are you more competent than anyone thinking he needs a variety of buffs?
“omg you know about game mechanics? Well i don’t know a damn thing, but my opinion is more valid than anyone…even the designers,becuz…” Because why?
Lololol I’m typing a paper and checking on this thread all the time to see what bs you spew I’m reading every word.
I’m talking shit on you specifically now because you think you know what you’re talking about when you’ve clearly are talking out of your ass. I’m not going to go back and multi quote every dumb thing you’ve said because I’m not putting that much time into your rants of bs. You are clearly playing the character wrong, don’t know enough matchups, or a combination of the two. The problem here is you take one person i.e. Gilly as if he is the ambassador to all that is Guile when he isn’t. Also I’m not posting excuses YOU ARE. With you it’s excuse after excuse after excuse of why you aren’t winning matches. You can’t win them all so get over it and just get better. Pretty sure I’m one of the only people here saying Guile DOESN’T SUCK so exactly how do I fall under the excuse category again? You along with many others fail to realize you need to step your fucking game up and STFU. I have repeatedly stated Guile has flaws but you can’t change that so you work with what you have. Learn to adapt or just put your game in its case and wait till April. You don’t win matches by going in forums bitching about his flaws when neither I, Gilley, Dagger G, etc etc have any say in his design because WE DON’T WORK FOR CAPCOM this forum isn’t going to change things. Do you think Capcom doesn’t know what’s wrong with Guile? Oh yeah that’s right, they make the game and you don’t.
Enough input has been supplied and a lot of what is being said is recycled things that have already been said or some bs moves that would make Guile, not Guile.
I guess you also didn’t notice Guile has great matchups across the board outside of Seth, Viper, and Sagat.
Coth_X
1025
Not to knock frame data, but just knowing the numbers doesn’t automatically mean you know how to use it properly. Timing is a big factor in how frame data comes together. When you execute a certain move in response to another move when you do it is very important. So just looking at frame data doesn’t automatically make you capable of the x move beats y move thing. Unless we’re talking about an srk vs a close normal.
Pfft. I’ve said before that basically anyone with any knowledge knows Guile needs help, more than just a couple of buffs. Like i said you can’t read,don’t read, or you just don’t understand what you’re reading, so you don’t know that already. I mean…just take a visit to the Guile forum. Who said i can’t win a match? I’m not like you so i’m not going to post a record and BS about my epeen online as you’re clearly desperate to do. Then, when someone challenges you, you quickly evade any chance of a match.
This is so dense. You realize the purpose of these threads is to improve the balance of the game(from each characters perspective) for the NEXT game right? Wow.
If you read anything, you’d know that capcom has stated they are trying to make changes that players want. This site is kinda sorta reputable, but you’d only know that if you read, and reading is for losers.
I noticed that’s a lie because i can read. Don’t know where you got that even.
I’m one hundred percent certain I don’t back down from challenges as well as not actually being challenged…I even sent a message to an Abel player earlier IN THIS FORUM asking him for some matches which he kindly obliged in a PM that he was totally down. I added him on Live to get some Abel practice, but ya know you should know all that because you read right? lolol. On another note you are extremely gullible if you think Capcom reads each and every single thing off this site you even said its “kida sorta” reputable hahaha. Oh and lastly here is your matchup tier list chart FROM JAPAN, just for you tier whore:
http://www.eventhubs.com/guides/2008/oct/17/street-fighter-4-tiers-character-rankings/
Looks to me that Guile can whip that ass across the board.
Ok, must have been some other guy talking about how he doesn’t play on PSN so conveniently there’s no chance of a matchup with whoever you annoyed back there. Yea i read, i wonder why none of the super elite anonymous players at your arcade can play with abel? It’s because he’s not american?
You don’t need to be a tier whore to know that Guile doesn’t have “great” matchups other than viper sagat and seth, it’s just you can’t be stupid, and lol@that tierlist.
Kich
1029
Again, seriously, we need to step away from the “people think frame data insta-makes you SF God” mentality. It’s a supplement to practical knowledge of the game. To ignore it is willingly ignoring a tool that gives you precision above gut feeling. When I’m playing, and I counter something that I felt they could have blocked, I ask them, “Could you do anything there?” if they say no, I check when I get home to ensure that no–there was absolutely no way they could have blocked say…the reversal flash kick, because their recovery was a frame or two longer than my start up. That’s now solidified, no more testing needs to be done, I know exactly what can and cannot stop that in terms of speed, obviously other things need to be considered, that’s where playing the game comes in–knowing ranges and the practicality of what you can use to punish something.
How much competition is in Calgary again btw?
I’ve noticed a few posters from calgary on this board. Don’t know why that matters, as anybody credible already knows Guile needs more than a couple buffs.
WhAt kind of competition is there in japan? http://http://www.shoryuken.com/showthread.php?t=200414&page=1&highlight=mago+tier
“Guile
He has almost no good matchups. Perhaps a slight advantage against Bison? It takes a lot of work to win his bad matchups, so using him requires a lot of skill. A really unfortunate character.”
Sounds like he doesn’t think that 4/10 is a very good score, but you know different don’t you?
You realize Mago isn’t good with Guile right…
Yeah I do think different, you know just like how Combofiend said What Guile in SF4? Then he got his fucking ass handed to him by Dagger G AT EVO!
On to the next one…
Look, another excuse!!! So, not only does it not count when someone who IS good with Guile says he needs alot of work, it doesn’t count when anybody else who understands the game says so either? Only you, the anonymous one, has an opinion that counts.
You don’t understand numbers at all do you? Again, there’s no such thing as a 10-0 match in this game. I can go find some video where Mago gets beat by a Guile but that doesn’t mean Guile destroys sagat…unless you don’t actually play the game and your only experience is based on one match.
…another excuse? That isn’t an excuse, it’s a legitimate fact because Justin Wong is garbage with Guile too.
Numbers aren’t everything kid! GET IT THROUGH YOUR THICK FUCKING SKULL! Damn guess you never heard of Any Given Sunday? Win when it counts son, nothing else matters. You make yourself look dumber by the minute I can’t wait till tomorrow.
Echo? Interesting how he can make so many other characters look awesome. What about the other Guile players in the Guile forum besides Gilley? Y’know, players people have actually heard of, that actually have proof that they are good.
Numbers aren’t nothing either, but if you never understand any of them i can see why you don’t think they matter at all. It’s comical how someone who thinks a 4/10 is a “great” score is trying to call me stupid.
Have you figured out why you’re actually posting in this thread yet?
Kich
1036
What Woo is trying to say is: you can’t look at a few good players who occasionally end up doing well, you need to look at the broader perspective–in totality, Guile doesn’t perform well in tournaments. Many very, very good players play him, but their performance on average doesn’t support that Guile is top tier. Guile can zone like a bastard, but his problem is that he doesn’t do any damage doing it. The precision in shutting someone down in a corner for 40 seconds chipping away at their health can be turned around in an instant by a SRK > FADC > Ultra or even tipped entirely in your opponents favor.
I’ll be sure to post some videos of my fights when my boy clears up his memory card just to show you how good Guile really is against people on both ends of the spectrum since he mains Akuma and Chun. If I had a PS3 I’d love to whip some Woo ass since he loves to talk about things he supposedly knows.
Sorry Woo, Guile doesn’t suck, you just suck with him. I mean jeez shut up bro, our last tourney Ken won when there were Bisons, Sagats, and Seths present. It’s the player not the character, repeat that to yourself in the mirror.
I’ve seen modinside videos, considering there’s lag, and how precise you need to be to do Guiles combo’s, i’d say he’s about the best online Guile i know of. Yet, i recall him saying that Guile still needs buffs…interesting
Maybe you can just travel to any arcade that any reputable players go to and show them how amazing you are. None of the reputable players know anything after all.
Just because you can beat your friends who have no names in some place we’ll never know of, doesn’t mean the character has great matchups. There’s a whole world outside of the basement, you sound like me when i had just picked up the game nearly a year ago.
Kich
1039
Again, Guile doesn’t suck–he’s just not as good as he could be and it wouldn’t hurt to improve his various moves that have awkwardly been nerfed, his stun rating, his ultra combo-ability, and his handful of just undeniably god-awful moves. Have you ever used Guile High Kick in a competitive setting? How much better would that move be if you simply changed the input from df.rh to 3K or db.rh?
Maybe some ppl don’t want to learn new tricks cause the work they put into their vanilla guile?
I feel that guile should be a hier teir solid player. IMO good lower teir chars should be like elfuerte and sim that have a very different style. Guile should be able to play more offencively especialy as in some matchups as he can’t play a defencive game
