I’ll address what you posted before editing, which was asking where you went wrong.
You’re dismissing balance concerns on the basis that, yes, a player can potentially win with a sub par character. You’re also implying that meta balance means no real problem exists, as evidenced by your curt referral to a meta balance article. This is similar to the age old apologist argument that anything is good “for what it is”; by this logic, I can rule out any perceived imbalance from a fighter by simply claiming that since even a subpar character has (semi-)favorable matchups and/or situational amazingness, there’s a meta balance and therefore all is right with the world. It’s flawed logic.
This is not to say the dude what you were replying to is dead on in his balance assessment, but if there are flaws to his argument, address said flaws; don’t make up Smashchu logic and stick to it like dogma.
Now this is gonna sound lame of me now that I see how angrily I’ve written that post out. But I was actually hoping to discuss my points maybe come to a head with it all. So I’m gonna ignore your insult and extract the points.
Online in Brawl DOES NOT COUNT! It’s pretty much all casuals 4 Player FFAs with items on any stage, that just doesn’t count (we’re not even getting into the horrendous lag). As far as offline goes, I don’t know which 6 year old cousin of yours you beat with those characters but whoever they are they CLEARLY aren’t playing them correctly (I myself admit that while Meta Knight is cheap I’ve never taken the time to learn him and as such can probably lose as him) Link vs MK is comparable to Dan vs Guy in SFA3. Sure Dan has a shot if the Guy player is inexperienced.
Not to mention that only one of my points have been addressed.
You do know about the AllisBrawl ladder, right? That’s where most serious people do their online stuff. It’s good for 1v1 practice. No need to torture yourself with smashing with “anyone.”
if brawl did have items as a tourney standard I might come back permanently but for now, keep smash off the srk forums. Theres a good reason why i don’t bother to go on smashboards anymore. Srk forums>>>Smashboards whole site.
I also came from the brawl community and meh i don’t regret leaving so far.
I am well aware of the ladder. Most people don’t and maybe I was wrong for doing so but I assumed neither did that guy.
Items will never be implemented owing to the fact that their placement and which item (unless you just turn one item on) you get are both random and therefore it’s just not fair if items spawn next to one player. By the way, coming in with Brawl as your first game and quitting is perfectly understandable. Come back when Project:M is ready.
Items could perfectly be blended into competitive play just everyone makes a big deal over the fact that they can’t predict what item shows up. And just because an item spawns near a player doesn’t mean it’s unfair when the exact same thing it bound to happen to you. Items spawn closer to the player who is losing even if it’s by 1%. and they have set spawning areas just they rotate which one of those areas to spawn at. If the smash community took the time and effort they could find a way to balance the game through items. which in turn would fix most if not all the issues they face with characters like MK and CG’s and camping, planking, etc. Items also add another layer of strategy to the game which could prove to advance the meta game further and maybe even faster than what it’s currently at. I fear for the next smash bros mainly because right out of the gate it’s going to have to follow the same standard rules (3 stock no items and a timer). Smash is a fighter but one that completely segregates what makes it such a unique fighting game. If i wanted to play a fighting game without items i would enjoy it more playing SF or any other game actually geared towards not having them present. Smash is certainly a fighting game but not a traditional one yet everyone or should i say mostly everyone in the competitive smash community tends to thing otherwise in a desperate attempt to make the game they care about match the standards of traditional fighters when it just can’t be done.
64 was great. Imo one of the best. Melee will forever be hype. Brawl is just so stupid. Every top player that makes money picks Meta Knight, or the RARE Snake.
Not even close. We’ve hated smash loooong before that. However, SRK was actually VERY hype for brawl leading into and after EVO. We worked a lot on developing top tier stuff and figuring out shit. Not to mention EVO worked DIRECTLY with Smash Boards on the EVO rules for Brawl so they could make us (SRK) and Them (Smash Boards) happy. Which, I fee we did. But there are so many nay-sayers and bitchers and whiners in the Smash community (almost all of them who didn’t even bother showing up at EVO) that we decided Smash doesn’t belong at our tournament.
We had Melee and Brawl at EVO and both times the reaction FROM SMASH BOARDS was negative.
So, blame smash players for the stigma and opinions we have on SRK about smash, not us.
no
melee has more viable characters than brawl
even then, character balance isn’t everything
melee has so much more dynamic and exciting gameplay
combos are nice and fun in melee as opposed to the hit-and-runs in brawl
movement is a LOT better in melee… dashdancing, wavedashing, dash-canceling with shield, etc all add a lot of movement options for spacing and outmaneuvering your opponent
shffling and faster gameplay makes approaching more viable in melee, as opposed to brawl, where your approaches are very strongly limited by the lack of fakeouts because of the lack of a wide array of movement options… this makes defensive play a LOT more viable because it’s easier to beat approaches by staying back and swatting your opponent away. overly defensive play is a lot harder to punish because of how ridiculously good spotdodges, shields, and rolls are in brawl too.
also, to stuart hayden, i’m pretty sure the smash community’s response to melee being in evo 2007 was good… they might have had gripes with how the tournament was organized and run, but the ruleset for important matches was fine… i think the main problem was that mew2king got eliminated really early because the earlier matches were best of 1 with no stage strikes so he was stuck with sheik vs mango’s jigglypuff on dreamland.
Wanna know why I hate smash? Because flying underneath a stage so you don’t get hurt is banned. How are you going to ban that? “Dur you went under the stage for longer than 5 seconds (i counted)…DISQUALIFIED”.
Gimme a break here people. SF has had things like infinites where you get hit once and you die (Alpha 3, MvC2), and that wasn’t banned, and whats more, those games were great in the tourny scene.
I find it a little sad that people are hating on party games. Melee only became a “fighter” by exploiting small glitches in the game, which in my opinion does not count. Now they whine when they are not able to do the same thing in brawl. Honesty, the fighting game community (talking like serious players) is small to start. I’m willing to bet that melee is even smaller than that. This is probably because the Smash series will always be viewed as a party game. Most people who play it don’t give a damn about priority or canceling, but more about playing as their favorite character. This is why people will not take it seriously as a fighting game, because its not meant to be. It will never compare to MvC3, SSFIVAE, BlazBlue, or Guilty Gear.
I have seen people play “Melee”. They are practically having a siezure on the controller, if you have to abuse the controller that much to be competitive, something is wrong. I guess it correlates to making melee appear competitive, people are struggling to hard for a fruitless effort.
Anyway, this was turning into a melee versus brawl thread anyway (what a shocker).
The things you refer to as glitches in Melee are not glitches. It’s simply exploiting the physics that are in place and perfectly in tact. It’s like taking advantage of jumping when the physics are there for jumping.
I play Smash, but I love all fighting games. They all are very similar. Saying people who play Smash don’t care about priority and cancelling is really short-sited. They care just as much about these things as people who play other fighting games.
Playing Smash, Marvel, and Street Fighter, I believe that Melee does hold up to all the other fighters. It becomes so obvious once you become good at it that it’s really similar to other fighters.
People don’t have seizures playing Melee… The button presses are not that complicated, and they all have a reason for it. At one time you have to attack, anticipate cancelling the lag as you land from that attack, preparing DI just in case you whiff the attack and are hit back, and also prepare for what you are going to do after that attack. It’s really not enough as complicated as you make it sound. Most of what I said is second nature to seasoned players. Saying people have seizures is way more than an exaggeration.
tl;dr version
I don’t agree. It doesn’t sound like you have experience with Smash. While different from other fighting games, it is also very similar in aspects.
Like I said, it still a party game to most and will never be taken as seriously as actual fighting games. There is just not enough depth to it to make it so. As far as I’m concerned people who play melee are upset at brawl because (aside from tripping) they cannot exploit the minor glitches in the game, as such they flounder. To me people who try to make smash competitive are making a mountain out of a molehill. They even go to such legnths as brawl +, which still asserts my point of trying to hard. If you have to hack a new game to bring it down to your terms, that proves how much of a “fighting” game it is. The matches are also very dull to watch, its the same thing over and over again. The so called “good” matches look too jerky and spastic to be of any interest. In fact, the only reason people at my school watch melee is because there is no MvC3 there, and the melee players arrive first.
Its really not that great of a fighter, I would rank it just above Ultimate Ninja Storm 2.
Wow, SentinelPilot, could you be anymore ignorant? You have no idea what you’re talking about. I hate when people have such strong opinions on things they know absolutely nothing about. The same thing over and over? Really? Anybody who’s played Melee and FGs knows what I’m thinking. Just sayin.
edit: and if you reply, I’m gonna fuck your post up.