Never have / Never will. Cammy 4 Life.
I can’t speak for anyone else, but unless I’m fighting someone who doesn’t hardcore turtle, I just get really bored playing her.
HDR has pretty much gone to the dogs, now. Something like 60% of my opponents start the match by jumping backwards. There are very few dynamic, inventive players out there; most players of that calibre have moved over to SF4/SSF4. So Super Turbo is left to the rote, defensive masses, unless you head over to GGPO where you get more old school and Japanese players.
I have (marginally) more fun with Chun and Honda, who are a lot better at forcing the other guy into action.
On top of that, you have a lot more people using turbo buttons and perhaps other cheats in HDR than GGPO (I won’t bother to name names, as the perps will simply furiously deny the charge). The number isn’t massive, but it’s enough to matter (to me).
Anyway, SSF4 is out now, so I can give HDR a rest for a while. Maybe the culture will have improved when I return. (I do think that HDR’s popularity will continue to decline if it doesn’t.)
Okay guys.
Who dragged in the Youtube commentator ?
I turtle against cammy cause that’s just what you do y’know. She sucks against turtles and so its their fault for choosing cammy.
but you are not innovating !
You should be doing sub optimal moves and strategies just for the sake of doing them !
Certainly, in the culture in which HDR now finds itself, that makes perfect sense.
My beef isn’t with what works, it’s with the overall approach to the game had by most HDR players.
I understand that this isn’t the 1990s anymore, where there was all kinds of discovery and innovation and incorporation of style going on. Now it’s mostly a bunch of next-genners, taking whatever optimum strats they find off the Net and using them (turtling being one of the easier and more effective ones).
That’s a perfectly vaild approach to the game, it just bores me is what I’m saying. And I think it’ll be largely responsible for the continuing demise of HDR.
No I learned to turtle against her because I found it worked, and it stifles her offense. The dynamics of fei vs cammy and ken vs cammy are very different.
Fei vs cammy sucks because you have to get close to her which is what she and fei wants. If I’m using ken, then I don’t have to get close.
Not because turtling is the best way to play the game, but because if I can, i’ll drain half you life before you get next to me.
This attitude is actually a really good example of what I’m talking about.
“Don’t experiment with the game, just do whatever you have to do to win.”
Again, a perfectly fine way of going about things, one that nevertheless doesn’t really evince an interest in what else the game might have to offer (and leaves the process of revelation to other players).
Anyway, like I said, I find it boring. If it floats your boat, that’s great. Enjoy. I’ve probably been at this game too long, anyway.
I know there’s a stigma that comes with the term “turtling.”
We can call it something else, if you like, but it is what it is.
Anyway, like I said, more power to you, man. If you enjoy playing that way, that’s all that matters. You dig it, and I’m bored with it. I don’t see a real point of contention, here.
See you around.
That’s the benefit of playing Cammy: no-one can say your play style is boring. Cammy is on the rush immediately, I just wish her knuckle was more effective so she could become that much more dynamic.
There was a time when I would have agreed with you, but from what I’ve seen, not even Cammy is safe from the staleness of play that now permeates HDR.
Not so much that people are turtling with her – although I’ve seen some of that, too – but that almost everyone is just emulating some other player.
Of course, the big difference between 1995 play and 2010 play is the Internet, where great quantities of information may be found and exchanged. I figure this is the chief culprit. The dissemination of new discoveries is no longer a slow burn; now, if you’re having trouble beating a good player, well, just hop onto some forum and get your strats right fast, no need to work at the game and make new discoveries of your own. (To be fair, we had the alt.games.sf2 newsgroup back in the day, but its subscriber base was peanuts compared to what a web forum like SRK.com has to offer.)
Additionally, one side effect of Dave Sirlin’s refraining from making massive changes to the game (which was laudable, of course) was that he never really addressed Super Turbo’s turtle issue (which Capcom themselves attempted to address in assorted ways in succeeding versions of the franchise, with parries in SF3, guard breaks in Alpha 3, etc.).
Still, HDR is a very good game. There’s just very little going on player-wise, in my opinion. And it’s killing the game.
shrug There’s always GGPO.
I’m sorry you find defensive play so annoying, Milo… but, I’ve seen the horrible things Cammy can do off of one knockdown. I’m not going to give them away if I can help it! :razz:
See I don’t get this, I should be rushing down blanka? honda? hawk or gief? Of course you turtle for some matches. (If you are playing a character with those tools)
I play with ken’s tools, there’s only so many ways to play some characters and there are optimum ways to use the characters as well as it being dependent on the matchup.
You find turtles boring, I find boxer rushdown boring, I find honda using HHS on wakeup for massive block damage boring, and dictator OHKO’s are boring.
I love getting in on a turtle even with fei because its rewarding. It just sucks the 99 times you try and can’t get in on them.
I don’t think Milo is saying anyone is wrong or anything, he is just making a personal point to say that turtling is boring. I usually consider it a good challenge to break someone’s defense with Cammy or Vega, I’m only irritated to hell when it is Akuma on the other side.
Honestly, I know he isn’t, but he sounds like the guys who whine about tick throws and then ragequit.
I side with Milo to a point. I do think that Cammy in particular has a very weak turtle-shell cracking game. The Hooligan Combo is great at it…once or twice. From there, it’s very hard for her to crack a shell without being easy to keep away. That’s why she’s still low tier, but I’ll still play her. I just slapped a ToD on my cousin the other day. Very rewarding. If only some other characters had to work as hard for their wins as she does. That’s what I like about Milo. He loves skill characters. When we were both in the arcades, I tended to pick up his skill characters. Those were the days, man. 
Hahahahhahahaha
So are skill characters, characters that that have shitty tools? So what are characters with good tools?
I think what OJ means is some players just require more skill to use. And its true. I faced SuperNYC with my Cammy and he SLAUGHTERED me every time, and I would think she’s my best character. I don’t keep track but I would imagine my record against him is 0-8 or somewhere there. Then I used my Vega who I started maining around February - guess what, I managed to win multiple times and even received praise as having the potential to be an amazing Vega (definitely not true, I suck at reversals and I still don’t know what it means to buffer or piano lol). And he has one of the best Honda’s on Live (between Him, Kuroppi, Megman, and Thelo it could go any way). So, did I win because my Vega is better or because the character is better? All I know is if I have to face any elites then I’m picking Vega even if I’m not as good with him as Cammy.
Know what I mean?
So I guess a “skill character” is a weak character. Got it.