Can SFII and SFIV co-exist?

Current Fighting Games Fighting Game Discussion
41

Yeah I see ur points David and I wouldn’t be surprised in the least if things added up that way. I’m just saying that you just don’t know until things go down and I just don’t see the mometum for 3S dying as quickly as you think it might even with all the new games coming. We could definitely argue about it for the next year but like I said from the first post…I’m going to take a wait and see approach despite my personal opinions just because that’s the only way to truly tell. I think 3S still has a lot going for it even today.

I’m not sure about comparing it so much to A3. I mean…A3 is different when you think about it. I mean there isn’t much any other SF game where you can do what you can do in that game. 3S just has a thing about it where people understand you can do anything in it and there’s a way to make it work. You can’t really go into the same mentality in any other SF game and expect it to work. You always have to have a solid gameplan and only need to switch it when things aren’t working for you. It’s that theme that 3S has about it that I think will keep people seriously playing it and interested in it for a long time.

I mean if it comes down to thuggery and money matches being the only thing keeping 3S alive than so be it. Each game needs some kind of a central theme to keep it going and I think 3S has that and will continue to have it for a long time. It just depends on which direction the momentum shifts if it does at all when all the new games come out.

42

I don’t think it’ll die quickly at all, I think it’ll stay in major tournaments for several years. The release of all these games is the beginning of its downhill trek, but it’s pretty much at the top of things right now, so it’ll have to fall a long way before it dies. Just know that without new blood, it’s very difficult to keep a game going after a few years of being dominated by other games. It’s possible, obviously, you can see that ST is still popular enough 15 years later to be in all the major tournaments and even get a remake coming.

But I think ST is unique for a couple reasons. For one, the pool of players who started out playing was gigantic, much bigger than any game today and probably bigger than the entire modern fighting game scene by a multiple of some whole number. Only a small percentage of the players stayed with it, but because the original number of players was so huge, that small percentage turns out to actually be quite a few people. 3S has the biggest player base right now, but that base pales in comparison to ST’s base and probably even to Marvel’s base, so if anything like the same percentage of people stay with it, the final number of people playing the game will be relatively small, not enough to sustain it at a high tournament level.

And because ST is the game of the OGs, it’s the game of the people who have the most power in the community. Like, the reason it’s stayed in Evo in years past isn’t so much because of huge popular demand, other games like DoA and GG probably have bigger scenes and would give Evo more money; it’s stayed because it’s one of the games that the people who run Evo like and play themselves. And don’t expect 3S players or players of any other game to take their positions, because there’s no reason to expect the OGs who run Evo etc to ever step aside. So while ST and Marvel players can be pretty sure that their games will always at least be at the major tournaments because the people running those tournaments play those games, that’s not the case for 3S.

This last point is obviously subjective, but I also think ST’s gameplay just stands the test of time better than 3S’s does. I played ST for a couple years way back in like '01-'03 but was never very good at it, and then obviously I was a big 3S-head for a long time, for 5 years, and I got pretty good at it and felt like I’d always come back to it. But then ST started to get more popular again and I got back into it, and I realized, oh crap, all this time I’ve been playing 3S, thinking it was awesome, when in fact there was this much better game out there the whole time! So I decided to quit 3S and concentrate on ST (and start wishing I’d spent all those years playing Marvel or CvS2). And once everyone who’s grown up in the scene with 3S spends time with SF4, HDR, TvC, and whatever else, I think many of them will feel the same way. Maybe not most and certainly not all, but I think a pretty good chunk of that scene will end up like me. Reasonable people can disagree about whether 3S is better than ST or vice versa, but I don’t think anyone can disagree that at least some percentage of the 3S scene will find something they like much more in one of the new games.

43

Well see, how often do people who are playing 2d fighters or fighters in general only play 1 game? Then, when you have new people coming in, what about their curiosity to see what came before, after, or during and what makes these games different from eachother? I have a friend who’s an example of this. He’s a COD head, least likely candidate to pick up a fighter. He started playin 3s. Then he started playin MvC2. Then CvS. Now he plays every fighter from ST to the entire vs series to 3s and GG. Now he’s waiting on SF4, KOFXII, and Blaz Blue.

I guess what I’m tryin to ask is new people to the fighting game scene will come in for SF4 or Blaz Blue or whatever game they pick up first, but don’t you think they’ll want to see what influenced, what is like, or what these games evolved from?

I think that 3s will have its fanbase still and even grow a little bit from SF4’s hype because of the curiosity factor. That and you can play it for free. Online. I also think however that SF4, ST, and 3s can all coexist together. They seem like staples moreso than Alpha ever did. Despite the arguments between ST and 3S heads, there will be fans coming up from both. You can’t honestly say that someone that is getting HD Remix that never played 3s before, wouldn’t want to know what happened or what SF became between SF2 and SF4.

44

Sure some people will branch out, I know plenty of 3S guys who’ve branched out to at least some extent with games like CvS2 and ST and GG and stuff. But that usually comes pretty long after the guy’s already gotten into the scene, and it’s rare that he picks up those other games strongly enough to become a regular participant in big tourneys in them. I’m sure some people who come into the scene through SF4/HDR/etc will check out 3S and probably a small number of them will like it enough to pick it up as a tournament game, but that’ll probably be a very very small percentage.

45

As much as I yearn for clue2025’s post to be true, 3s players have not gone back to try Alpha or SF2, and I doubt 4 players will go back to 3s :sad:

46

I do like me some Alpha 2…I will say that. More people should play it.

I mean I really hope a lot of people find something new to like with all the new games. As awesome as it would be to see 3S be seriously played by many for a long time…if people don’t find something better or find something equally as interesting than the fighting game scene is pretty much doomed to being not much more than it has been for the past 5 to 10 years.

If anything the “dying” of 3S and other older fighting games for newer fighting games will ensure that fighting games will continue to succeed in the future. Hoping that 3S will simply stand the test of time does nothing more good than Marvel or ST does. Simply being a game that stands its time. A game that I don’t think I’ll find anything that I like more than for a long time.

47

Alpha 3 should replace turdstrike if people are hard up for Street Fighter that isn’t ST or 4.

48

:lol:

Here we go.

Alpha 2.

49

I don’t think thats the issue. Go on 2DF right now where theres ST, 3S, and A2/A3. Whats the biggest room? 3S.

Ok, I think I should be a little more specific. When these new guys get into the game and start meeting other people playing the game or games, other people can introduce the older games to the new players. Thats what happened to the person I used as an example. They don’t necessarily have to be in the scene, just have to play with someone who plays other games. That won’t be everyone, but I think there’s enough people to make it happen so ST, 3S, and SF4 will all coexist. Despite the retarded rift between ST and 3S players. Thats like Smash players saying Brawl isnt a real smash game.

50

Responding to his shit is only gonna derail the thread any ways. You really didn’t need to respond to that at all. LOL. People who use fecal matter or sexual innuendos to describe games usually are just looking for a troll session. He’s just wishing A3 was back and that game died a long time ago.

See my thing is that I’m not going to be one of these butthurt guys that go “man what happened to 3rd Strike?!” if and when it does go under. I’ve had my fun with the game and would love to explore it for many years to come. If it hapens that it doesn’t go that way then that’s fine. What got me into SF in the first place was SF2 and there are and will be in the future many different ways to play SF and other fghting games. Wholly…I just like fighting games in general. I just have a specific liking for 3S but like and play quite a few other games.

51

Alpha 3 is a terrible terrible game.

I don’t see how one can hate 3rd strike and then think Alpha 3 is perfectly ok.

52

I’ll be the first to say that once I understood what A3 was about at higher levels of play…it completely turned me off. There’s no way I could find much anything that game has to offer at a high level any fun. Alpha 2 has its dumb stuff but it’s not quite as crazy as A3. A3 is literally a hop, skip and jump away from Marvel. Way too much crazy shit in that game for my tastes.

53

I don’t hate 3S or anything. That is, I don’t like it myself, I don’t really enjoy playing it all that much, but I’m totally fine with other people liking it and with it being in the Evo lineup if there’s demand for it. It’s just, I think that somewhere down the line there won’t be enough demand for it anymore.

54

The same can be said for like half the games at Evo right now. Which in effect overall is better for the fighting game community than simply forcing ourselves to play 3S, Marvel or ST for the next 10 years.

U definitely going to Evo?

I slept way too much today…I’m not tired at all.

55

Nah, I can’t go. Ethics test is that Friday and then my brother comes home to visit Saturday. Next year!

56

I don’t like Alpha 3 because X-ism seems rather useless. I also hate the grapple system. If anything Alpha 3 doesn’t feel like a true SF game. All of those weird cancels, and VCs, just way too much for me to digest. It can be fun in small spurts, but I can never see myself wanting to improve in this game. The same goes for Chaos. I can play it here and there, but I just see no need to pick up the advace stuff in the game like exploiting GCFS.

3s does it for me. Yeah ST is cool and all, but 3s has a more modern feel to it. Every character is so unique, and you really feel that with enough work you can make them quite competitive. Look at my sig, I can beat any random Ken, Chun, or Yun with any of my character choices. Yeah I probably couldn’t beat the Justin Wongs, Pyrolees, and KOs of the world, but I can beat most people I play against. SF3 is a thinking game, and that is what comes to the forefront. Sure you can know some nice juggles with Dudely, but 3s just emphasize that “you better think about it” before you do it. Not to say ST isn’t a thinking game, because it is. But for some reason it feels like I have better control of what is going on in 3s. I can take control of the match if I think and play hard enough. ST always feel like an uphill battle.

SFIV looks to be a happy medium between the two games. It has the fast, offensive gameplay which emphasize spacing and zoning like ST. But there also appears to be a huge Yomi game at work too. At least what I can see in the videos. The game is looking good, despite only being a few weeks old. I can still see some 3s like gameplay elements there, but also some ST stuff.

However there will be people who prefer 3s style over ST style and vice versa. Hopefully all three games can find a happy co-existence.

57

if japan and toronto keeps playing it then that’s all the support i need. doesn’t really matter to me at all if evo gives it the boot. if i say anything more, it’ll just be random offensive shit that detracts from the main opinion i just posted.

58

Sorry to double post, but something came to me when I was reading these responses. Especially the point of generations.

I am 28 and willl be 29 in September, which isn’t far away. I was around when SFII first hit the scene. I’ve been an arcade lover pretty much my entire life, and if arcades were still booming, I’d still be going there besides playing at home. I loved final fight, and I definitely started to love SFII because a lot of the elements it borrowed from Final Fight. Hell, I can say that I am apart of the Final Fight generation which converted to the Street Fighter II generation. Sure I played SFI, but it wasn’t as fun as Final Fight.

Hell, back when I was in school, I even told a friend of mines back in SFII infancy that SF II was like a cross between Final Fight and SFI. Why am I making this point, because just as many people who loved Final Fight became the original SFII generation, the same applies to SFIII. The original SFIII players were all once SFII players at one time. I mean, I wasn’t a high level tourney player to even understand the differences between SFII and SFIII. I just knew it felt like SF to me. And many of the new generation don’t really play SFIII and think “this is not like SFII”, they think it’s just SFII. And that alone gets them into the game.

SF is the baseball of competitive gaming. No matter how much more exciting basketball and baseball are to look at, baseball will always remain the American pasttime. SFII will always be at tourneys, no matter what. It is like a game of baseball. Sorry if that sounds nonsensical.

It occured to me that VF, Tekken, and GG have not really had “generations” of players. VF, Tekken, and GG are only incremental steps with each and every game. I’ve followed all of the games since the beginning, and they are all just minor improvements over the same engine. People didn’t have 10 years to enjoy VF1 before VF2 came out, and then VF3 (which was a big jump in the series mind you). Tekken is much the same way. TTT enjoyed YEARS of competitive play despite the pressence of Tekken 4. And while Tekken 4 wasn’t that great of a game, it had enough changes to Tekken system for people to enjoy the old Tekken style in TTT. Only in Tekken 5 where they combined TTT and T4 style did we see both games eleminated. VF was the same way, as VF3 was just too different, and VF4 was the balance of power, VF5 even more so. GG has just beeen evolving, but if no GG game ever surfaces, you better believe the AC will become the ST of the GG scene.

My point is that SF is different in the fact that each iteration introduce something totally new and different from the previous game. SFII was WAY different from SFI. The revisions and upgrades are the “minor” upgrades we see in these games. It’s like each SF number is it’s own self-contained series of games. No one plays CE, SSF2, or SFT, but they play Turbo. Just as no one plays 2I or NG, but they play 3s. It seems like SF games simply become a legacy of it’s times. I kind of believe that SFIII will have a SFIII scene no matter how popular SFIV becomes. At least let’s hope my theory is correct

59

No.

:slight_smile:

60

It is, but not for reasons you are insinuating/suggesting

Pretty easy actually. :rofl:

No I don’t think anyone will tell you A3 is perfectly ok.