That’s correct. Frame Data is ALWAYS assuming you are hitting on the first Active Frame. Meaty Attacks override Frame Data all the time. But you can still use Frame Data when considering Meaties by looking at the number of active frames, imagining what would happen if a move hit on the LAST active frame.
For example, Cammy has 4 Active Frames on her Close Fierce punch that gives her a -1 on Block. So using this data, you can see that if I Meatied the Fierce and did it so it connected on the LAST ACTIVE frame, you get 3 extra frames (since there are 4 Active Frames, you are no longer hitting on the first one, but hitting on the last one). That means, you’d get a +3 to your Frame Advantage, meaning you’d get +2 on block for a Meaty Fierce.
So looking at the Frame Data again, you have -17 on a Medium Cannon Drill on Block. But you can see it has 19 Active Frames! That means if you can get it to connect on the 17th, 18th, or 19th Active Frames, you’ll come away with, at worst, even Frame Advantage and, at best, +2 Frame Advantage!
Of course, without a guide like whiffing Low Roundhouse after a Back Throw, there is no easy way to consistently land a Meaty Cannon Drill on the last 3 frames without a TON of practice. So it isn’t as useful to Cammys as we would like it to be. I’ve been trying to figure out ways to better “guestimate” the timing of a Meaty Cannon Drill in Training Mode, of late, but it’s not easy to do.
Wow, that was incredibly comprehensive. Thanks a lot!
I suppose one way of connecting late is to simply launch the cannon drill from a distance, and it makes me realise that its perhaps best to choose the version of cannon spike in each instance that will hit latest in its active frames (I shamefully admit I used HK and EX near-excusively) - but I can also certainly see the benefits of launching it close after knockdown with good timing, like after a cr. rh as you suggested.
I think RH drill on opponent wakeup is a meaty and it’s fairly doable. Just time it so that you’re “2nd” hit makes contact exactly as they stand. It’s easier than it sounds, I can do this fairly consistently and I’m pretty terrible.
It, of course, may not be a meaty and my opponents are just equally as terrible.
How useful is close MP as an anti-air compared to cr.HP? I used it once against a Viper player online and it seemed to work well. I’d like to use close MP more than cr.HP if possible.
Depends on distance. Honestly though, if you can use a cr.HP as anti-air, just use shoryuken. In fact, if they’re in front of you in general just do shoryuken. Close MP is a pretty decent anti-crossup, though. It won’t beat meaty ones or anything, but it’s alright if someone just randomly decides to jump over you. Shoryu is just too good in general, though, so it’s very rare that doing a normal instead of it are pretty rare.
Here’s an issue I’ve been having with CStrike. From what I’ve read this move is supposedly safe on block, but 90% of the time I am able to be thrown by my opponent after they block it. Is there something wrong with my timing? Or is Cstrike not as safe on block as I think? It matters not how they block it; I get thrown when I do it from the air, tkCS or when I attempt to crossup. Feedback appreciated.
Throw has extremely quick start up, are you teching it in response, because you are most likely going to be unable to lp or lk out of it when it’s blocked.
actually if your opponent starts to throw after a regular c.strike, just use a TK c.strike just after the regular one, he won’t be able to throw you at all, and you’ll have a nice combo for free
after a few of these, he will stop throwing and go into fear mode, or just dp
Well, CStrike is an air attack, and like all other air attacks, the amount of frame advantage you get depends on how close to the ground you are at the moment the Cstrike hits or is blocked.
With tk strike, you should be getting quite a bit of frame advantage. I don’t see how throws are getting you in that scenario, unless you’re following up your tk strike too slowly.
Like others have mentioned above, a good way to deter the opponent’s throwing after CStrike is by doing dp afterwards. If they were mashing throw, they’ll eat a hefty sum of damage.
i been tryign to play a keep out game against shotos, but they always seem to get randomly into a distance that if they jump, my DP will come out the wrong way and get stuffed by the crossup. s.strong would probably save me that trouble.
damn shoto crossups. i find it that they only beat me after they cross me up and tick throw me a million times =(
actually the shoto’s dont bother me they tend to not last long enough if i notice this trend…its funny you say this tho , today i was kinda getting pissed with gen’s crossup move, i went to training and i found the only viable ground deterent is the close mp as antiair…
The second scenario is correct, provided Ryu isn’t still in blockstun from the strike when the spike is done. Otherwise, it will be blocked.
The last is partially correct. His dp will win because of its invincibility on startup. If he does cr.jab, he’ll be thrown before the jab starts up fully.
Note: Ryu could use the low throw-tech option select instead of cr.jab, and he’ll risk less. If Cammy decides to go for a tick throw, the option select will allow him to tech the throw. In the same situation, if Cammy decided to block instead of tick throw (in anticipation of a dp from Ryu), the option select allows Ryu to attack with cr.short.
So…my thing is…I need better aggressive play with Cammy. I use her as my only main, however my main strategy is playing very defensively waiting for an opening. I was playing a Blanka player the other day, goes by the name of GozHard350 and was barely able to beat him in the Championship mode…but it was a bad match…and really I think I got lucky. He msg’ed me saying all I do is turtle and I kinda agree with him. What’s a good offense strategy against the lightning attacks when you are right next to blanka? Also…the multiple light shoryukens of Ryu and Ken just destroy me! I usually try to go for a light crouch kick or medium crouch kick but i still get shocked or dragon punched. I know that certain times hits can go through the electricity…i just don’t know the timing or how that works…cuz sometimes i can get the kick to connect…most times…shocked or dragon punch. Any tips? Thanks in advance!
Also: I saw vasAZNion13’s crazy videos against a Blanka player and I’m thinking…no way…the person I played must be different. I am nowhere near the level of awesomeness that vasAZNion13 and that Blanka player is at. Is the awesome Blanka player Gohazard350 or Gozhard350(I hope its not the latter cuz I didn’t want to piss off a top players with my mediocre skills!)
it’s gozhard350. i had trouble in 3rd grade due to spelling ^_^.
turtling is a strong part of cammy’s game. esp if you have a slight lead with cammy, turtling then will help out a lot because players will try to get in and cammy’s antiair game is very strong.
playing aggressive with cammy is alright, but you’re very susceptible to focus attacks if you’re spamming dive kicks.
for me, i recently been trying to practice a style (very similar to alinoune…sorry if i’m still spelling the name wrong). where i’m in their face with poke range and i am able to hold my ground there and apply pressure without being overly aggressive. i think if i am able to control that aspect well, i’d have a better chance against top players (minus giefs…fucking gief…)
Isn’t it better to use a TK Dive to counter a foreseen throw (for example if you’ve been thrown like 2 times before after a blocked C.Strike) ?
That way, if he throws, you gain a free combo (300+ damage), if he doesn’t, you can go into block strings or tick throws or anything, much safer than spamming a Cannon Spike after a blocked C.Strike imo, since it’s not safe on block.
because the foreseen throw can turn into a psychic dp. =(
you really have to get the ryu player conditioned to tech throwing by other means before you abuse tk dive after blocked dive.
i normally do a lot of walk back and forth throws…i also abuse a lot of scrubby throw tactics like “j.rh–>throw”…stuffs that’s normally hard to DP randomly. then i may attempt blocked dive–>tk ex dive.
Okay, I read the OP, but I’m not about to read all these other posts (there isnt that much time in my study hall bell anyway) for the answer to the question I’m going to ask.
The OP mentions the “Tiger Knee” Cannon Strike, the move that the one dude who beat the #1 PSN BP ragequitter used. The move is awesome, but I have a few questions about it.
[LIST]
[]Why is it called “Tiger Knee” Cannon Strike?
[]Is there an easier way to perform the QCB+UF+K on the pad? Because it is abnormally odd, like “Guile’s Super and Ultra input” odd. And my thumbs are blistering, and that has never happened in all my years of playing fighting games on a pad.
[/LIST]
