The cr.mp, st.lp sequences pushes you too far back for the st.hp to hit on its first active frame. If you look at the hitbox data, st.hp has 2 active frames and the range on the 2nd active frame is much further than the first.
So its not a timing issue, its a spacing issue. Range turns that 6f st.hp into a 7f move which cannot combo off the counterhit +6 st.lp.
To make things even more complicated, try turning off the counterhits in training menu and try to recreate it on your own. Set the dummy to all guard and record chuns guard recovery as reversal st.lp. There are some strange hitbox interactions going on in a real counterhit situation that may or may not randomly push you out of range.
(This also applies to chun waking up with st.lp. It magically pushes her back, causing even the simpliest bnbs to miss. Rashids cr.lk is another example of this hitbox fattening phenomenon.)
Valoon
2182
Thanks!
So I guess this is just me not doing them low enough in training mode.
Oh ok so itās an issue where st hp hit box extends farther on the 2nd active frame so that is why it still forces the block. I didnāt know the hit box moved during active frames, thought it just reached itās extension went active and then turned off as it retracted. I also always thought if a move connects and the next move can reach it always combos, but apparently not this particular one. Are there any other combos Cammy has this problem with? Sucks cause I was using st/cr lp to st hp CH setups in matches but found some were not connecting which just seemed off. At least this explains why. I guess you canāt really rely on this CH combo unless itās point blank.
There are a lot of attacks in this game where the hitbox shifts forward by a couple pixels during its active period. Hell, there are even some attacks where the hitbox shifts backwards during the active period. Regardless, the main thing you should take away from this is that you just changed your st.hp from -3 on block to -2 with a little bit of spacing. Even though this makes the st.hp a 7f move (thus wont combo off the counterhit jab) there are huge implications to this.
You now have a āslowerā 7 frame st.hp, but if the opponent pushes any buttons during the blockstring and extends a limb, the first active frame of the 6f st.hp will still hit them anyways. Cammy doesnt benefit from this quirk as much as other characters do since st.hp only has 2 active frames. You have examples like nashās b+mk āsidekneeā attack which is +0 on block but has 4 active frames, all of which slowly inch forward one at a time. Nash can space it so that the +0 turns into a +4 on block with maximum spacing. Furthermore, he can blindly cancel that knee into an unsafe special because that move is only special cancellable during the first 2 active frames and not the rest. So basically if the opponent pushes a button, they get hit by the initial active frames (as mentioned earlier with cammy) followed by the special cancel. If the opponent chooses to block, they are now blocking a really late side knee and the unsafe special wont come out. This leaves nash at +4 allowing him to followup with a cr.mk or sweep for a 4f gap.
sidenote: with cammy i generally blockstring with:
- cr.mp, cr.mp, st.hp
- st.lp, st.mp, st.hp
The first 2 hits of #1 combo naturally and you can easily react into a spiral arrow. If the 2 cr.mpās gets blocked, you can try to go for a st.hp (no cancel) for an extra hit that may counterhit. Some people can hitconfirm off 1 st.hp hitting or blocking so its up to you if you want to continue after that. If the opponent has a 3f jab, you will have to start with st.mp, cr.mp.
For #2, if im going to jab in my blockstring, its most likely going to be at the very beginning of the string. This allows you to tick throw (which beats vreversals), a shimmy, or chase them down easier after stuffing a backdash.
I noticed this not working after playing against chuns who like to jab alot but are used to cammys light attack strings so I mixed in cr mp to cr lp CH st hp to combo. It was working 50 percent of the time. What I didnāt realize was if I CH her cr jab it worked but if they tried to tech grab I would still get ch but couldnāt connect because of the extra pushback you were referring too. I really hope they fix this as its totally misleading. If you get the CH you should get the CH. This seems to just give advantages to select characters if your ask me.
Ramma
2186
The fact that CH causes extra pushback is stupid to begin with.
cr. MP > st. MP > cr. MK not working on someone like Necalli is infuriating.
LockM
2187
One of my biggest annoyances with SFV is the CH state fucking people up more than it actually helping them. You go through all this effort of properly hitconfirming only to have the game fuck you over.
Itās wierd as Combofiend and Woshige have mentioned the importance of doing the right combo at the right timesā¦
It isnāt just that string and Cammy specific either. Entire game is full of this BS.
carups
2188
Can we talk about what is the best blockstring and why is st.lk, cr.lk, cr/st.lp the best blockstring?
Seriously though, Iāve recently stolen this tech from xiaohai or cobelcog and it works wonders. I used to pressure with mediums but this is far more adjustable and harder to predict/react. Thoughts?
St.lk has very little push back
St.lk Cr.lk Cr.lp beats walk back
St.lk Cr.lp x2 beats backdash and 3fr
You can do mediums after st.lk if you feel theyāre doing delayed buttons
Itās also amazing for positioning with shimmies
LockM
2190
The reasons why st.lk is good are abvious, not a whole lot to discuss tbh.
Very little block and hit stun and almost no pushback and itās +1 on block.
It allows you a lot of freedom in how you apply pressure based on the opponent their tendencies.
The opponent cannot delay their throw techs and if they donāt delay their throw techs or buttons presses they can be more easily frametrapped.
V-Reversal doesnāt help either against it.
In short Cammy her st.lk starts very suffocating type of pressure.
They can still delay tech just not as delayed
LockM
2192
Probably a sweet spot then between immediate throw tech and delayed throw techā¦which is slightly delayed throw tech.
Lol, honestly you will get either thrown or frametrapped after Cammy does her st.lk.majority of the time.
ShinLad
2193
It has become annoying but luckily it is with certain characters and normals so you can at least prepare for it.
Iāve been getting st.mp > cr.mp whiffing all the time against Dhalsim on counter hit. Really annoying considering I shouldnāt be at a disadvantage after a successful CH lol. Just gotta work on hit confirming into st.hp or cr.mk I guess.
Yeah go with st.hp or Cr.mk
carups
2197
Do you guys bother trying to shimmy with st.mp, cr.mk?
BixHD
2198
I like to do this from a stationary throw bait with cr.LK
https://youtu.be/osdCrKdMI_o
carups
2199
Does this really work? Iāve heard about it for a while but I dismissed it since it looks dumb and not scary at all. Iāll try it later though.
It does work.
Iāve been doing that since week 2. However, you have to memorize throw ranges and walking back is good enough for the entire cast
