2041

This is working exactly as it should. Her v-skill has a 35 frame start up with 2 active frames. If you mash any normal it will beat it. This is by design otherwise you could just v-skill all day (like Ken’s :cough: :expressionless: ) as its +2 on block.

Oh I should mention so how do you beat it? Well you showed one way by sweeping but cr mp at the distance you were standing outside of it will beat any light also. Mashing a light button against cammy is not a smart thing as she can frame trap her opponent really easy. Basically catch them with a few frame trap setups and they won’t be so mashy about it, then you can start v-skilling again, but most can react to it with a simple jab. Yes her v-skill is a gimmick just like her hooligan. For those who aren’t prepared for it they will get caught, but for those who are she becomes a very basic character to beat. She basically gets shut down to a simple game of grabs and shimmys in the end.

2042

Thats not what I’m talking about, on the first hooligan, she goes behind Rashid and then gets teleported in front of him again. I experienced in a match and wanted to see if I could re-create it. It seems like a bug or at least an unintended result of an interaction between her hooligan and his cr. lk.

2043

Yeah you are right it definitely looks like a bug. If you watch it at 0.25 speed it’s easier to catch. At first I just thought he hit you before you went on the other side. If you install frame trapped you can actually see what’s going on with the hit boxes. Might be something with where his body box gets pushed back at that exact moment you go to land on the other side but there is no space so it pushes you back to the front.

2044

Well, ok then, when it gets fixed don’t forget to tell us what was that all about. I’m really curious heh.

2045

Hi guys. This is a question about the basic st.mp > cr.mp combo. I noticed that when I did this to a Mika player after a successful jump-in attack with hk, the cr.mp completely whiffed after hitting the st.mp, even though I was up pretty close to her.

I asked Cobelcog during his Twitch stream if that whiff happened often in the Mika matchup. He said that if st.mp > cr.mp is used in a counter-hit situation, the cr.mp will whiff because of the opponent getting pushed back further. He said that replacing cr.mp with something like cr.mk or st.fp would be the way to connect after st.mp.

My question is: Is this a character-specific issue? Iis this a Mika-only problem? Or does this happen against any opponent?

Thanks for any help.

2046

It’s all relative to distance, and since you did a jump in prior and delayed the hit to get a CH it’s hard to say for sure if it’s character specific at that distance. I can tell you that if you are point blank it will not whiff unless you countered a move that significantly altered the opponents hit box to increase push back which means it’s not just character specific, but also counter move specific. It seems to matter on which frame you catch their move, on what particular move they are using, and at what distance if it will whiff or not. This results in some unusual or unknowable whiffs at random times for all of the cast. I think the more helpful answer would what’s the greatest distance you can hit without whiffing? I believe the distance to cause the whiff is 1 blocked jab or just outside of her grab range anything farther than that will whiff the cr mp. Basically if you aren’t within grab range with st mp CH then use the follow ups Cobelcog suggested as they are more likely to connect. If ever in doubt cr mk is always the best option followed by st Hp.

2047

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DbKYuG1khWg

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YhvrcoUnhK4

I know you lot have been watching Xiao Hai do exactly what these video demonstrate. Thanks for shutting me down a couple of months ago about its viability. Guess you lot got proven wrong. (I am feeling so smug right now.)

2048

I said too that I Dp trough fireballs as counter and noone belived me or belived it’s viable.

The general emotions here are still toward = cammy is so bad,we have to take so more risks for everything,we have only 900 life blablub. 2 months ago everyone complained how bad Birdie is.
I turn the wheel and say the next problem character is Bison.

2049

Well I don’t think she is bad. I do think she should be 950 health though.

2050

I’ve been seeing a lot of good cammy players use st lk for tick throwing. any significance over using that normal instead of another?

2051

st.lk has very little pushback

you can do cr.lk cr.lp xx special to catch walk back

2052

st.lk has very quickly become my favorite button since watching xiao hai’s take on cammy.

especially versus characters that don’t have a 3 frame button (looking at you ken masters).

st.lk > cr.mp has a 4f window, but will beat 4f light buttons thanks to the priority system.
so you can do:
st.lk > CH cr.mp > st.mp > cr.mk xx mk/hk arrow

hk arrow gets you about 200 damage, but lets you follow up with dash > meaty cr.mp (+2 block, +6 non-CH, +8 CH)
mk arrow gets you about 230 damage, but you can only follow up with dash > meaty cr.lp (+3 block, +5 non-CH, +7 CH); alternatively you can do st.lk and repeat what’s above and then make your enemy complain that vortex is back in sf5 on another forum (cause apparently mixing in back recovery or just no recovery isn’t obvious to some people still)

of course, you have to convince your opponent to push buttons in order for that to work, which is why st.lk into tick throw is so wonderful. like necro said above, it has very little pushback, meaning you don’t have to walk forward at all to throw (unlike lp)

it’s a shame you can’t special cancel out of st.lk, but i totally understand why. it’s a god damn great button already.

is there a way to record the dummy doing v-reversal? i must be doing it wrong…? because the computer will show the v-reversal when i recording it (obviously, as i’m inputting it), but then i can’t make the dummy actually use it when i attack it? i’ve tried both “guard all” and “only guard first attack” or whatever it says, but it made no difference. perhaps i have to input it a tad bit slower?

in any case, i was looking at the frame data for cammy’s v-reversal… and it’s even slower than i had originally thought.

at 17f start up, pretty much every medium button will recovery in time to block unless you inputted the v-reversal at the very first frame that you enter block stun (which is basically impractical). so if your opponent is the sort of guy who likes to take microsteps in between his buttons (perhaps he conditioned you to block), then v-reversal loses a lot of value, since you’ll very likely input v-reversal as he’s walking, letting him react and block. on the other hand, if your opponent is the sort of guy that likes to do “long” blockstrings/counterhit strings, then v-reversal is more likely to succeed.

i had always assumed it was slow enough that lp/lk’s will recover in time, but still fast enough to beat most mp/mk’s (and obviously hp/hk’s/specials), but i guess not. oh well, all the more reason to blow it on v-trigger

2053

If I understood it right,st.lk forces the opponent to tech early,what makes our frametraps more lethal too.

2054

st.LK used to be cancelable pre-beta 3 :stuck_out_tongue:

Also, I can never get V-reversal to work off “record guard recovery” for whatever reason, what I usually do is load a regular dummy recording, have it jump, and when it lands hold down/downback and do the v-reversal input

2055

If anyone is interested, made video of the difference in spacing with instant air cannon strike

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nJJfXU7kPzE

2056

Can we get a Balrog and Ibuki match up thread started please.

Still no frame data on Rog but I’ve been able to find that st lp xx hk CS/SA punishes rogs dash punch if they do it close enough (I think it’s -4, but I think EX is safe). You can also preemptively stop it by mashing jab. Moving forward in this match up is hard without throwing out a jab while walking as his punches are so fast and will catch you before you can block again. I’ve literally stutter stepped and been caught so many times so now I throw out jab while walking and it stuffs their punch and makes them think twice about it. He has no cross over so you don’t have to worry about them trying to cross you up. His jump is a little floaty so use st HK to anti air him like you would Birdie or Gief. It’s easy to crush counter him that way. His jab is 3 frames and has long range, so use 3 frame traps to punish when up close. If you are planning on grabbing you’ll need to do the st lk, cr lp, st lp to beat the 3 frame jab mashing. The st lk, cr lk to catch walk backs will trade. They have no get off me move besides super and can’t deal with cross overs so feel free to cross them up. His dash is super fast, maybe even faster than Nashes. The dash grab is definitely harder to react too then most of the cast. The hardest thing to deal with is the up and down mix ups. As far as I can tell blocking high is preferred in this match up as the the low attack appears to be fully punishable and the overheads he can combo off of. Your goal is to pin him like you would birdie. Slowly walk him back with jabs, watch for jump ins, and punish any unsafe dash punches. Giving him space will make your life hell as his damage and speed is insane.

P.S. Instant EX dive kicks are currently catching a lot of them trying to dash punch after you finish strings so feel free to use those until they wise up and jab you out of it.

2057

Lol, Thanks for the info and tips provided, @SunTzu81, really helpful, especially dealing with balrog, his dmg are insane, which is not really good for us cammy players T_T, I win a match yesterday against balrog just because not a experienced one, for ibukis, i had no ideas how to deal with them yet, just know most ibuki players like to jumpin a lot i guess? LOL :smiley:

2058

Balrog gets the trophy for beeing a annoying ass.
I hated him in IV already, rushpunches fly all over the place,jabmashing.

Good god,this is so easy to break now,i’m kinda happy about that.

Ibuki is pretty free on wakeup her EX Upkick can be CC,her footsies is not very good,her damage is medicore without Meter,her dashes kinda suck,if she has to reload she is often open for a punish,her slide is negative on hit.

2059

Balrog’s rush punshes can all be CA’ed, I think.

Not ex, tho… But still, be ready for that punish!

2060

If you’re feeling silly you can actually vskill against some of the dash punches. He will whiff