Calgary Thread 2014

[Chriztoph]

i don’t really have a beef with plinking. I mean to complain about a 1f link is kinda harsh especially when 90% of other games is chains and magic series. Even with plinking it’s still difficult to combo, but people still manage to do it whether they plink or not.
The only thing I’m seeing from you chris is you want the game to be easier to pick up. Honestly, sf4 is already relatively easy to pick up, but from what i read, and I might be wrong, you want “new” players to be able to compete almost immediately. This will never happen dude. If you’re a beginner than you should have no chance of winning vs. someone who has been playing fighting games, or the game in question at all, at least not right away. For someone to put in so much work in fighting games in general, to be beaten by a beginner based on system mechanics and actually retarded. That’s the way it works. If you don’t want to explore the system, and see what works on who, then whats the point of evolving you’re play? If everything is generic, no matter who you’re against then the game gets dry very fast.
I like going into the lab and finding new stuff, new set ups, new combos etc. If I couldn’t do that then this game wouldn’t be interesting at all. and all you say is that “you have to go research and find it” well ya, that’s how most fighting games work. If you don’t want to put in the work, and don’t wanna do the research for however many chars in the game, then you’re gonna lose. Also comparing Pong to a fighting game is pretty bad. Like really bad.
If you’re not down to put in work, explore the system on your own or do research for what’s already discovered for a fighting game then maybe FG’s aren’t your thing man. I hate to sound mean, but thats how i feel. Maybe you should try COD, or something where you can literally just pick it up, not have to know much about the system and play. Run, aim, shoot, right?

ALSO- doing a family thing today, so I can’t run the ranbat/tourney I wanted too until later, if at all. Was planning to start around 7, but things came up. I’m pretty cheesed, since i work late nights on the weekends now. what can ya do tho right?

I don’t think you guys understand.

• Exploring and Learning game mechanics is great! It’s part of the game, it’s meant to be in the game. Finding new set ups, combos is great fun and awesome and it SHOULD be in the game.
• I want the victory to be NOT based on OBSCURE game mechanics. That’s what I’ve been saying all along. The things I’ve listed are straight up bugs and glitches.
• Beginners should not have a chance because pros are straight up BETTER, not because pros know obscure mechanics.
• Pong is a fundamentals game, the better player wins. That’s how SF should be. That’s how competition should be. It’s a great example.
• I don’t think you sound mean, you’re straight forward, and I respect that.
• COD is low skill, whoever sees whom first wins.
• Fighting games require a lot of skill.
• Fuck you I’m not leaving

[blackadde]

Who gets to decide what’s ‘too obscure’ or not? You? What’s the litmus test?

[Duck_Strong]

i don’t really have a beef with plinking. I mean to complain about a 1f link is kinda harsh especially when 90% of other games is chains and magic series. Even with plinking it’s still difficult to combo, but people still manage to do it whether they plink or not.
The only thing I’m seeing from you chris is you want the game to be easier to pick up. Honestly, sf4 is already relatively easy to pick up, but from what i read, and I might be wrong, you want “new” players to be able to compete almost immediately. This will never happen dude. If you’re a beginner than you should have no chance of winning vs. someone who has been playing fighting games, or the game in question at all, at least not right away. For someone to put in so much work in fighting games in general, to be beaten by a beginner based on system mechanics and actually retarded. That’s the way it works. If you don’t want to explore the system, and see what works on who, then whats the point of evolving you’re play? If everything is generic, no matter who you’re against then the game gets dry very fast.
I like going into the lab and finding new stuff, new set ups, new combos etc. If I couldn’t do that then this game wouldn’t be interesting at all. and all you say is that “you have to go research and find it” well ya, that’s how most fighting games work. If you don’t want to put in the work, and don’t wanna do the research for however many chars in the game, then you’re gonna lose. Also comparing Pong to a fighting game is pretty bad. Like really bad.
If you’re not down to put in work, explore the system on your own or do research for what’s already discovered for a fighting game then maybe FG’s aren’t your thing man. I hate to sound mean, but thats how i feel. Maybe you should try COD, or something where you can literally just pick it up, not have to know much about the system and play. Run, aim, shoot, right?

ALSO- doing a family thing today, so I can’t run the ranbat/tourney I wanted too until later, if at all. Was planning to start around 7, but things came up. I’m pretty cheesed, since i work late nights on the weekends now. what can ya do tho right?

I have a beef with plinking because the same mechanics that allow them also make up the bulk of option selects. I don’t care that they make combos easier; that’s not the problem at all.

To me, option selects run completely contrary to the spirit of fighting games. They cut down on the need for deliberate decisions since they use system mechanics to make the right choice for you. I personally hate that, especially when the little nuances of the game which give birth to them are completely arbitrary system mechanics that were implemented without fully understanding their implications.

You can’t get rid of OS’s completely, but I see no reason not to get rid of the ones with obvious solutions. Button priority (for normal a > normal b, not specials, focus and throws > normals or special a > special b) and reducing leniency would remove a ton of them or at least make them much more difficult. Short of that, you’d have to get rid of hitstop, but that’s a little drastic.

Most of the changes I was suggesting before are to increase the pace in what I consider to be a terribly dry game. Part of it is personal preference base on past experience, but I’m not just throwing darts at the board. I’ve actually put some thought into all my points.

[w00fles]

He’s basically saying SF5 should be this : http://lethalleague.reptile-games.com/

[Chriztoph]

Who gets to decide what’s ‘too obscure’ or not? You? What’s the litmus test?

That’s a good question. If it looks like a bug and feels like a bug it’s probably a bug and you should get rid of it. That’s how I feel with:

• option select
• input shortcuts
• 50/50’s AND unblockables
• kara throws
• plinking

[street11]

I think he wants the game to be more similar to how Soul Calibur is?

In that game, 50/50 still exists, but if you know the opponent’s character you can actually see it coming, which makes it not a true 50/50. There are not a lot of difficult combos since most of them are a series of strings, but you’re given a chance to play a high-level execution character if you want to.
Execution-wise, that game is really easy to pick up, and the main factor comes to knowing your frames and doing mindgames. There’s barely any character-specific combos save a few really difficult ones.
Well, OS exists to an extent (JG block OS by double tapping your block button for example), and not a lot of the features in that game applies to what he’s saying, but I think I kind of understand him.
It’s probably my fault for doing so many 50/50 Gouken dive kicks and Gen Ogas on him.

[Chriztoph]

I think he wants the game to be more similar to how Soul Calibur is?

In that game, 50/50 still exists, but if you know the opponent’s character you can actually see it coming, which makes it not a true 50/50. There are not a lot of difficult combos since most of them are a series of strings, but you’re given a chance to play a high-level execution character if you want to.
Execution-wise, that game is really easy to pick up, and the main factor comes to knowing your frames and doing mindgames. There’s barely any character-specific combos save a few really difficult ones.
Well, OS exists to an extent (JG block OS by double tapping your block button for example), and not a lot of the features in that game applies to what he’s saying, but I think I kind of understand him.
It’s probably my fault for doing so many 50/50 Gouken dive kicks and Gen Ogas on him.

YES. Thank you Daniel

[blackadde]

None of those things you listed would be considered a bug by either the developer or the majority of the community that plays the game …

You’re back to square one because ‘feels like’ is not a testable or consistent thing.

[Duck_Strong]

Chriztoph, as much as I think your heart is in the right place, a lot of the things that you’re suggesting should be removed have been considered staples of the genre forever.

In a perfect world, developers take them all into consideration when balancing the game so I don’t think that’s realky the issue. 50/50 situations are here to stay. They are your reward for doing things like landing a knockdown or putting yourself in a frame advantage situation.

You have to realize they don’t just happen. You make a series of good choices that lead up to them happening. No one likes to be put in that situation, but that’s really the whole point.

[Chriztoph]

None of those things you listed would be considered a bug by either the developer or the majority of the community that plays the game …

You’re back to square one because ‘feels like’ is not a testable or consistent thing.

I’m not the only one. Capcom was debating on taking plinking out in Ultra:

Capcom: Ultra Street Fighter 4 is changing all of the time, select button...

[street11]

That was actually only select plinking. I think they said they would look into it because it requires rewiring your stick (unless you’re willing to use that small select button on your stick)

[Duck_Strong]

Honestly, I think it’s too late to make that sort of drastic change to the game. Let it be what it is.

Is anyone bringing Xrd to Dickens?

[thebest]

remove the ability to block, remove all combos, only have 1 punch and 1 kick, remove specials and supers and ultras, decrease stage size by 80%

trust me, i’m an 09er

[Chriztoph]

That was actually only select plinking. I think they said they would look into it because it requires rewiring your stick (unless you’re willing to use that small select button on your stick)

Okay, maybe I’m the only one.

[street11]

That was actually only select plinking. I think they said they would look into it because it requires rewiring your stick (unless you’re willing to use that small select button on your stick)

Okay, maybe I’m the only one.

Not really. Ppl are just too used to it.

[douglam]

Is anyone bringing Xrd to Dickens?

I will bring Xrd! How early is anybody planning on getting there?

[blackadde]

Plinking makes the game easier, for everyone. Why would you want to remove it? 1f links will always exist in any game that isn’t all just dial-a combo.

[blackadde]

You have made a lot of blanket statements (eg. Remove 50/50 situations) but you haven’t backed any of these things up with mechanical implementation that doesn’t break the game.

How do you remove OS? Think about it a little.

[Duck_Strong]

Because the ability to plink also leads to a lot of OS’s. I don’t mind them making combos easier, but not if that’s the side effect.

I will concede that by removing invincible backdashes, you would remove the need for a lot of OS’s so it might not be so bad. But then then reversals would still have to break armour if you left level 3 focuses as unblockbles.

It’s kinda fun trying to reverse engineer the game and to figure out why they had to make it the way it is in order to accommodate focus attacks.

[blackadde]

Do you make combos easier by adding more frame advantage? Repeating inputs on each frame for a button press? Or just go back to unplinkable 1f combos (obviously not good for beginners)?