d3v
75
Oh please, and how many other options does Cammy have to beat out somebody who’s down backing hard aside from throw?
You’re all taking a look at one very specific situation and making balance calls based solely on that.
How many options do Laura and Mika have to beat out somebody who’s downbacking aside from throw? Mika has…well other throws. Laura does have an overhead v skill that leaves her open.
I’m not claiming the characters are gimped because of their supers, funny enough both laura and mika want their meter for ex anyway so using supers is uncommon.
carups
77
While we’re at it please give Cammy a command grab and a overhead as well.
What, you don’t want that?
Heh, frame data and poke range for normals makes these kind of comments a joke. Anyway I’m not saying Cammy is too good or in need of nerfs. I play her on the side myself. She does have a badass super though. Probably the only super that can compare in versatility and ease of use is Nash’s.
Cammy actually has a strong mix up game and she can do it mid screen. Even has a mild “vortex” of sorts that involves using hooligan mixups canceled out of her target combo and other situations. That and a dive kick and a projectile evading move that crosses up and can be comboed out of means she can be a monster offensively. She also has a meterless reversal which only three other characters have. She has a super that even gets her out of the corner and she can shut down zoning in multiple ways.
I’m not even arguing anybody is gimped either. I just don’t think they purposely made grapplers “super powerful” to get around them not being able to chip. I doubt it even really came up in their heads. All characters are designed to make use of their tools, whether they chip or not and some characters are very strong and can chip and others can check mate.
Like it was said we should look at balance as a whole and not just this one aspect.
d3v
80
Both Laura and Mika atguably have better tools to set up situations to use their throws.
More importantly, like any fighting game with multiple characters, everyone here has different tools for different situations that may not exactly be 1 for 1 with each other. In fact, this whole x character can do this but y character cannot, but can do something that x character may not be able to do is part of what makes fighting games interesting.
Of course, I just am saying Laura and Mika have crappy supers, and I wish they didn’t. Not much else to it.
[quote=“ensane, post:53, topic:178435”]
Not sure if dumb or ignorant so I’ll leave this here
[/quote]
You’re wrong on this. This is a punish CA not a neutral CA. The opponent is not able to jump after the flash due to the blocked move used by her opponent still recovering.
[quote=“Mr.Flowers, post:82, topic:178435”]
Of course. Unless there’s some frame perfect setup people discover, the “unblockable” facet of mika and laura’s supers are useless. Then we’re just left with some tame ways of comboing into them or some punishes. Then again, for both characters they both want their EX meter for basic gameplay so it’s an anomaly to even have 3 meters unless you’re losing badly.
That or you’re stomping. Many times I have meter because once they’re in the corner I don’t really need it. Guess I could spend a bar to kill them a bit faster, but that’s about it.
I think R. Mika’s top tier at getting you into the corner. Nobody else can do it like she can. If she didn’t have passion press her viability would be so much worse. I think that alone is better than just “throws” especially if you can master the hit confirm option select into it.
I play almost exclusively Mika and while she can run a train on people when things go her way…she really isn’t that good. When things go her way, she’s like sf4 seth. But they don’t go her way as much as sf4 seth did. As soon as you block a single s. mp from her, she’s -2 and you can go ahead and shut her down. It’s remarkable how many people I play against with 5000+ lps that let me hit more buttons after they block a s. mp.
Unless she has reversal super, Mika can’t do anything about you hitting jab/short with any character after you block a s. mp other than block it. When you take that away from her, she doesn’t really have any other good buttons other than s. lp. And no, EX shooting peach is not a reversal, no armor on frame 1 so you can just punch her in the face before she starts it.
Anti Mika strats are kinda dumb and easy honestly.
I agree with you and I think this is why grapplers are almost universally being seen as low tier at the moment.
R. Mika is amazing at getting you in the corner and making you guess to death, but every character is dangerous in the corner. So the question is, do you want to be a 10/10 in the corner with R. Mika and sacrifice everywhere else, or would you rather be an all around better character with better tools, mobility, and/or damage but an 8/10 in the corner? There’s nobody who I want putting me in the corner and with R. Mika you have to hold down/back and wait. This is really obvious when you get characters who have invincible reversals, especially meterless. If Birdie or Dhalsim is in the corner they’re basically free and have to deal with your mixups, but if you’re playing against a Ken or something you now have to guess 50/50 when you’re mixing them up and if they’re right you lose all of your momentum. If they put you in the corner you can’t do that and you have to get around their better zoning, neutral, and mobility yet again. Everyone has meaty/throw and it’s powerful in this game so you can devastate in the corner regardless.
The game is still early and there is hope however that something will come along, but R. Mika’s game is based on reads and scaring you and if you can’t scare them you just don’t have as much to fall back on, you have some situational normals and that’s it.
The good news is that if you kick a lot of butt now and she’s still seen as bad next year she’ll likely get buffed and you’ll be really good with an improved character. I think they were a bit harsh with her with the beta nerfs. I can see taking some of it away but they did you guys kind of harsh lol, especially seeing how some others turned out.
I just saw her in the trailer and was like “I want to play her!” because she’s a funny character. Really not much else to it. I’ve put in about as much work as anyone as put into their characters and…I dunno. She’s relatively weak. She’s playable of course and can be really nasty when you get a couple reads but eh.
Some of her toys can really confuse people and you can take advantage of that. Like her meaty f+fp in the corner, ex typhoon where people don’t realize there’s another mixup after the first makes me laugh. But her pokes are somewhat shaky and while she has good walk speed and a good dash, the frame data on block for a lot of her moves just prevents her from being very good imo. I wish I could say otherwise, because she’s the only character I actually like playing atm, but that’s pretty much where Mika is at unfortunately. Hopefully someone can prove me wrong with some tech.
I think that’s why everyone is playing her. The people who play Mika likely find her character appealing more than anything. They also probably find her fun to play. I don’t think they’re picking her based on matchups or for tier dominance as she has a lot of hard matchups with very common characters at low levels and high levels of play.
Did you think her beta 2 version was too strong or just right? Do you think they should have left it mostly the same with a few tweaks? What would you change about her?
I think she was too strong in beta 2 and too weak now.
Remember what they did with Rose in Ultra sf4 where they gave her a bunch of minor buffs that added up to making her a monster?
They did the reverse with Mika giving her a bunch of minor nerfs imo. They even took her 1000 hps away…heh. Her s. mk being murdered really hurt her honestly. It’s an 8 frame move now, used to be 7 frame. Also the f+mk used to travel WAY more than it does now. It was her way to contest space, not anymore. Now you’re forced to aggressively walk forward with her but she doesn’t have any button to do that with other than her s. mp, which is -2.
Yea since they toned down damage all around, they had to tone hers down, but they nerfed her v trigger, v-skill, reversal, normals, frame advantage on drop kick and peach, jab into target combo, health etc. I think people got caught up in the Mika hype a bit and Capcom was Capcom. They buffed some other characters who were strong or mostly left them alone which was weird.
It seems like her cr. mk is good but it’s negative too. It hits lows and has more range. St. mp is faster but stubbier and goes over lows. Her cr hp is a gamble. Don’t think she needed the health hit on everything else with all the risks she has to take, meh.
I was thinking about “lets make her s. mp +0” but I dunno, that might make her a murderer. A vile murderer heh. So maybe if s. mp is gonna stay at 5 frames it would be -1 on block. And make her slide faster. She actually had a better slide in alpha 3 than she does in this game. It should still be open but the startup should be greatly improved from 12 frame startup to 8 frame startup. Still just as punishable.
Do you think being able to combo off of cr mk would be too much? I don’t think she needs it but one thing that seems annoying is that when you poke with cr lk or st lp and you combo into light peach that it whiffs at optimal range. I think a mild range increase on her light peach attack would be nice.
I’d take a range increase on her st mp if they didn’t increase the recovery. Maybe a slight buff to st mk. Uncharged far hk could start up a bit faster as it’s what 17 frames atm? She has no crush counter she can just “bait” at those ranges outside of sweep and it is risky. Her f+hp is more for meaty attacks. It would be nice if she had something that could threaten mashing a bit more from those ranges since she has to be close to frame trap with st mp being so short.
Making her and Laura’s command grab jail won’t likely happen so I won’t go there. I wouldn’t mind a hitbox adjustment on her moonsault so it could be better as an anti air without having to do a hard read, it tends to get stuffed quite often unless you use ex or really commit.
A few of those wouldn’t be too bad I think.
Ah well.
Her s. mp takes work unfortunately, because it links to like everything. s. mp links (not cancels) to ex qcf+pp and her super. Which is annoying because you can see the potential there but it’s hard to do it every time.
You can even do s. mp, s. mp, link super if you do the s. mp at the closest range. s. mk counterhits to s. lp xx qcf+lp. Then there’s s/c. lp counterhit s. mp into whatever. It sucks running into a bunch of Ryu players but the potential is there.
Her counter hit options are solid. st lp into standing mp, cr lk into st mp. F mk into st lk.
You have to be quite close to do them or it whiffs though. Her main advantage of her cr lk is the range, but if you capitalize off of it you need to be in a riskier zone.
Her normals have good things about them they just have situational use. It would be nice if you could get a f+mp on counter hit as that move has more range and you could follow up on it. Perhaps they could think of doing that to reward good whiff punishing with light normals.
