1401

its funny because I was just going to ask about gief matchup, but Deviljin gave a pretty good description on it. I’ve been doing great recently against gief, until I ran into a gief who knew how to really put the mixups to work.
Those empty jump ins, the crosses, the short jumps can drive you insane.

but if you were to ever temple shock gief, try back dashing, then sj hk, if he stands there or lariats, it will cross and hit. thats all the wake up options on gief that i have.

Another couple of matchups I have been having problems with Are

Rush down kens, the ones that just keeping poking/kara throwing, and not afriad to dish out srk’s in the middle of ur chains? links? combos? if i were to c.mp hp tk feint into cross bk, or c.mk, mp tk, he’d srk me out of it. even if i tried elbow to throw, smae thing. But the problem is, he doesnt always do it, but does it enough times to get damage on viper. asidfe from that its the rushdown and kara throwing like i mentioned earlier, i guess i was triyng to do 2 things at once, lk bk and tech throwing. I found that hp tk sucks when ken , or any shoto for that matter does c.mk.

Honda, of course, im still studying their weakness and how to get in with viper…

Then theres cammy, I really have trouble timing her cross over bk’s on her, and ambigous j.hk, im starting to think yuo cant really do those on her…

Im starting to think, once you hit a high enough level, all characters can get annoying…

1402

You’re right. Even Dan gets annoying. It may sound weird but I find that match-up kinda hard. His SRK is very good and dankukyaku kills any seismo and low pokes (plus I don’t think there is something you can do after blocking). Again, the most useful tool I found is LP TK.:rofl:

1403

ehh. Playing with viper is all about gaining momentum through offense and getting as much damage as possible from the momentum, so who ever has better defensive options and/or does high damage to her low health, viper is going to have a very hard time with. thats why every matchup seems hard when really its all about gaining aggression, capitalizing on punishment, and reading your opponent right.

1404

This should help you a bit. An exerpt from one of Jibbo’s posts against another person who was having trouble dragon punching Gen’s cross ups correctly. Basically the exact opposite of the situation you were having. Either way this will explain why you’re getting DP’d.

Basically…if you center your j.HK knee directly on top of Ryu there is no hit box. This is what all the Japanese players do. It’s also the best way to hit the person on wake up period since it leads to free damage and it’s easy to miss the person if you aren’t trying to hit the center of them on the wake up.

1405

Hell yeah man. Her ambiguous hk is so gdlk. I make them as ambiguous as possible. I try to make it so that even I don’t know which side it will hit on. Because if you don’t know, then the other person definitely doesn’t know either. You have all the time in the world to hit confirm with standing hp then either finish with a buff combo or end it with a feint or smaller combo, etc. I like to do standing hp after the ambiguous hk because it keeps my hand off the stick so that I don’t commit to any moves. Sometimes if I use cr hp I’ll tend to guess at which direction to start the seismo motion or whatever. Standing lets me start the seismo or tk motion after it’s hit confirmed so I don’t mess up. Just my personal preference.

You were probably not centered perfectly like DevilJin pointed out. I’ve seriously beat countless lp and hp srks with lk bk right over top of Ryu. The only one you can’t beat is EX obviously because it’s totally invincible all the way to the top, but still you’ll just whiff, it won’t hit you. You were probably just off center slightly. Ken might be able to srk you out of it because one of his srks goes like straight up with no outward arc, but I’m not sure about that since I don’t play a lot of Kens. Well not any good Kens at least. With Ryu though I’m certain it will work every time if timed right because I’ve played at least 500 matches with a couple of my friends who both use Ryu. Just make sure you are directly over the top of them when you do it. If you’re not right on top just don’t even go for it because you will get hit for free.

1406

I really need to get myself to do this more often. Just make it so that I don’t even know where I’ll land and just continue after a hit confirm. A lot times I’ll aim for either the regular j.HK or try to cross up specifically, which usually whiffs, or gets DP’d.

Digital’s pretty on point with this one. Ken’s LP SRK could stuff a LK BK that’s directly over head, but I’ve only done it like twice. The timing on that one, I think anyway, is a lot stricter. Usually when I’m playing another Ken, I’ll just try to perform the LK BK just a tad behind them. Also, I’ve found that a good way, although rather annoying, to practice those is to get in training mode, set the dummy to CPU and max out the difficulty. More often than not, if the character has a SRK, the CPU will try to reversal it upon wakeup. Just try not to get too mad when you try to throw in some SJC cross-up BK’s and you get stuff’d with Ryu’s standing LK lol

1407

Ken’s STRONG DP goes straight up. It’s the one that was being mentioned earlier. Sad part is that he might be able to put more damage into it with an EX Shoryu after it hits =(

1408

Total noob Viper here. jsut wondering; what’s the best option when Viper is being pressured? Like, when she’s stuck in block strings. EX Seismo is too slow and she doesnt seem to have a good poke to stuff. So what do you do, or is it just patience then doing a feint into excape? I know of the c.mp SCJ, but that never really comes out under real pressue. HELP THIS NOOB!!! thanks.

1409

a few things you can do depending on the pressure are:

  1. hp tk (better if you have 2 ex bars)
  2. ex bk
  3. dash
  4. FA
  5. block
  6. lk bk if they are going for throw or even works well against low hits
1410

Viper’s backdash is really good if you aren’t in the corner. If you are in the corner block, jump forward out of the corner, HP thunder knuckle (as long as they aren’t going to throw you) or LK burn kick or tech throw if they are going to throw you.

1411

hey deviljin, any advice on rushdown kens?
For example Yipe’s ken, who goes in and does shorts and jabs, and can either do srk, or kara.
do you just block and react on throws?

1412

Well from watching videos and what I learned myself…once Ken gets in you’re already in a bad situation. You have to be careful with using HP knuckle to escape because Ken can kara throw you out of your HP knuckle. I would say your best bet is to just start looking for an opening to backdash before he gets in range to throw you. Backdash will beat throws and predicted low forward or f+MK. Then when you back dash out mash EX seismo to beat his next inevitable move. From what I’ve seen in videos you just want to block long enough to look for an opening to EX seismo or LK/EX burn kick. Use EX seismo if you just don’t know what else to do but if you’re smart you can use LK or EX burn kick to beat kara throws or f+MK (LK burn kick for throws/EX burn kick for f+MK). Otherwise just block and backdash out. It’s definitely a match that you want to try to win from a far if you can. Ken has an easier time rushing you down than you do rushing him down. Force him to make offensive mistakes and punish. I would only really try to put pressure on him after you’ve knocked him down.

Actually now that I think about it I believe LP thunder knuckle also beats f+MK if you start it early before he starts the f+MK. So the jist is to use your backdash to stay out of f+MK range and try to beat him to his pokes with LP/MP knuckle and c.MP/c.MK and EX seismo.

1413

you make ken sound so dangerous lol.
I guess its the kara thats scary, and the huge damage on the srk, ex srk, tatsu combos

one thing i’ve noticed against chun, is that neutral jump on chun doesnt really work, since she can trip and modify her hit box.

1414

Yeah what’s scary for him is that at a distance you can react to everything he does pretty easily and once you have meter he can’t throw anything out without fear of getting EX seismo’d. Which will allow you to control the ground and pressure a bit easier. Ken is more dangerous than people know though…yeah. He’s not a great character but he can definitely be made to work.

Fighting against Chun is pretty similar except when you knock her down…she’s free. Just work on knocking her down and sitting on her wake up with j.HK and burn kicks. Keep EX seismo handy from a distance and punish her floaty jumps with HP knuckle. Viper clearly wins that match. Ken vs. Viper is about even. It just depends on if Ken finds opportunity to gain momentum or if Viper can keep him out before he starts.

1415

So I got my first taste at how bad the Viper v. Honda matchup is, and I must say it left a really bitter taste in my mouth lol…

I got own’d so bad it wasn’t even funny, and it sure felt like it took longer for me to put in my coins and select Viper than it did for the actual match hahaha… Are any of Viper’s normals even decent against Honda? It seemed like everything I was trying was getting stuffed…

1416

F+MP will avoid/beat/trade all headbutts.

Jump back HK or BK will beat them.

Only way that match-up is winnable is to rush Honda’s shit down. Just DO NOT stop the offense at all. He’ll get some counters in, they’re pretty unavoidable unless you’re just too fucking psychic, but just shake them off and keep those cross-up BKs flying all day.

There’s this Dashio vid that was vital to me understanding this match-up, I’ll try and find it but basically it goes:

RD1: Rushes Honda down and almost perfects.
RD2: Plays a lot more conservative and is being beat in every aspect of the god damn game.
RD3: Rushes down and almost perfects again.

1417

Thanks for this. Guess I played the matchup completely wrong because I was more on the conservative side. I just had a hard time getting in without getting slapped in the face with his big ass palms of fury. Is the Dashio vid on youtube or nicovideo? I have accounts for both so it shouldn’t be a problem.

Thx for the tips jaded.

1418

Here’s an example Viper (Dashio) VS Honda (Akima)… dont know if its the one you meant or not.

[media=youtube]g08eLtGWeCE"[/media]

1419

Naw, that’s good one though. He plays it like I said, kept those Cross-Up BKs flying all over but Akimo is too XP’d for that shit so he knows how to block 'em.

Shutting out Honda is the only way to win, you can’t try and bait mistakes or defend and punish or rely on him getting combo happy and wait for your counter 'cause it’ll never happen Vs. a decent Honda. Everything he does will beat you if you sit and wait, you need to rush.

Akimo AFAIK is Japan’s best Honda (BP/WP) and was taken out by his best match-up.

I’ll try and find the one i’m talking about. Pretty sure I saw it on YouTube.

1420

So for opponents like ken and cammy, after your temple massage/shock throw. How tight is the timing on your j.hk to avoid wakeup srk / ex srk?