C.Viper Q&A: Quick questions here please!

[JDH_the_Auditor]

Hey what is Viper’s frame adv/disadv after a blocked c.short xx fierce tk xx feint?

[Paladinight]

Its very high advantage I’ve blocked reversal chun super off it.

[LainySky]

Its very high advantage I’ve blocked reversal chun super off it.

I believe it’s +1 or even, actually. It’s not that high of an advantage.

And kevfactor, learn Juri. Viper’s not worth the time and the effort that you have to put into her to get her potential.
And her max potential is so much lower than Juri. Juri still has untapped potential, Viper is all maxed out.

[Tr_pzt_r]

I wouldn’t say all that now…There’s a lot of mix-ups/pump fakes/etc you can do with her, if you ask me Vipers potential is unlimited because of her SJC cancels and feints which is another meta game in itself if you ask me, people are just not being creative enough. Although I do agree that Juri has much more potential then what people have shown with her thus far. Also for short feint in theory it does 1 of 3 things:

A: Lessens the recovery of the short
B: Adds a frame of block stun if the opponent is holding back.
C: Option A and B

So at best two frames at worse one approximately.

[Silverson]

dont pick viper if your just starting… the only way to win torneys with her is to have a true knowledge of every other character in the game. you might as well pick juri because catching up to winning viper players is going to be a waste of time. but if you dont care what i think and are going to pick viper. make sure you learn the whole cast like they are going to be your secondary AT THE LEAST. and good luck failing in training mode for hours upon hours

[JDH_the_Auditor]

I picked up Viper because she’s the fucking masterpiece and most interesting character in SSFIV. Who gives a fuck about anything else?

[Paladinight]

I’d say both of these characters have untapped, potential.

Juri has more because she’s newer, but not enough people are actually on a level with Viper where they fully understand her to say she’s character that can’t be improved upon

[jubatuba]

I’m really struggling with EX seismo sjc fadc. The thing is, I can get the meterless (I don’t flash yellow) focus attack, but it doesn’t dash automatically like everyone says it should.

My input is 623mp+hp, stick to neutral, millisecond pause, 2369mp+mk.

Any ideas on what I’m doing wrong?

[imac980]

I think it’s because you’re only inputting one forward instead of two needed for a dash. I use the same method but to get the sjc fadc I do 2369 mp+mk 6 (so an extra forward after the meterless sjc). To dash automatically you do 62369 fadc.

[rushx5]

Hi, I main guile and I’m getting destroyed by good vipers online. The guile forum doesn’t really provide a comprehensive matchup strategies against her. I just want to ask for help from viper players’ perspective, how would a guile player approach this match? strategies? Boom zoning and most of guile’s normal AA are useless. Viper can change her air trajectory that makes air throw never safe. Thunder knuckles punishes pretty much everything guile can throw out (even st.HK). There isn’t much guile can do except guess most of the time.

[Paladinight]

Just try to keep Viper away from your face, throw booms from far away, if you are about middle range be wary of throwing booms. If you see her jump even the slightest bit, just throw out, c.hp (I’m not sure if this is the actual move, the uppercut one) it beats out everytime she jumps.

If she gets into your face pay attention to her attacks, if you can see a pattern don’t hesitate in throwing out flash kick. If you get aggressive just keep your attacks safe, 90% of her shit gets beat out by your c.mp.

[Killey]

Honestly, I think Guile Viper is even maybe 5.5 in Viper’s favor with her nerfs and Guile’s buffs. It’s nowhere near as bad as it was in SF4. Booms from afar are actually a bad idea, imo, because it makes Guile more susceptible to the Seismo game rather then if he was doing them from closer range just because of Seismo’s long recovery. Viper has to be predictive in order to beat your Sonic Boom with Jab TK or the overhead when your doing them at close range. Couple with EX Sonic Boom and you can limit her Seismo zoning games. I think Guile has a easier time against Viper if he’s up in her face then playing his usual zoning game just because Viper has answers to his zoning game vs his pressure game. I’ve had Guile’s bait out the jump ins with up close booms then just air throw me. If you see Viper SJ from mid to full screen distance you can just air throw her on reaction. You have to be careful with your pressure game especially if you’ve got her in the corner. A lot of Guile’s throw a boom and then hide behind it to pressure her with some normals afterwards. Well if you wait till she blocks the boom then go for an attack she could EX Seismo in between and then Ultra 1 you right afterwards.

In regards to Juri or Viper. I use both and I feel that the overall better choice is Viper but if doesn’t hurt to be proficient with both characters as they sort of compliment each other. Unfortunately, both characters share some common bad match ups so in terms of going against the top tier characters they have issues with Rog, Bison, Blanka, Honda, and Abel. Juri has an easier time with Rog, Bison, and Honda but she really gets owned by Abel, Chun, Guile, and Deejay. Viper loses to Abel but not as badly as Juri does but she handle Chun, Guile, and Deejay fairly easily. Viper loses to Gief in general but she can beat Gief with patience and really good spacing but Juri can really man handle Gief. Viper loses to Rufus but Juri goes even against him. Viper goes even with Ryu while Juri loses to him slightly (5.5 in Ryu’s favor, imo).

In terms of character dynamics Viper is just a very demanding character to use because she has average reversal moves, slow normals, and high execution requirements. When put on the defensive you have limited options and need to have a solid defense and in order to generate momentum you have to be flexible, patient, and creative. There is no ez mode move with Viper so just like how you need to know the fundamentals to any character multiply that by 10 with Viper. She is one the fastest walking characters in the game, which makes a huge difference when it comes to spacing and footsies. Her footsies are bad in a sense that her normals are slow but her walk speed really helps in this department as it makes walking in and out of your opponent’s ranges really easy. Once you get use to the speed and range of her normals you will come to appreciate her footsie game quite a bit. There’s something that’s really rewarding when you out footsie certain characters with Viper and whiff punish them hard with something like c.FeircexxEX Seismo. It’s just like “HA! I just out footsied you with an 8f normal, bitch!”

Juri is a much less aggressive character then Viper as she has really superior pokes. She’s in the middle ground of zoning and aggression as she can’t strictly zone for an entire match nor can she rushdown. You have to sort play the middle ground and captialize on the opportunities based on the match up and distance between her and the opponent. She has some really solid normals that allow for great poking and compliment her fireball zoning well and although it would give her good footsie potential her walk speed is ass that it hurts her footsie game significantly. However, the hitbox of her normals are quite good that for the most part you can stick it out and relatively beat out a lot of other normals with proper spacing and reads of course. She’s not execution heavy at all but defensively she’s in a worse position then Viper. Both of her best reversal options are really weak and leave her incredibly vulnerable when baited and only one can be FADC’d for safety but requires it to be FADC’d on the first hit and your blowing 3 bars for it. All of her specials are unsafe so you outside of the corner you have this feeling of limited aggression when pressuring your opponent.

[subzero44]

Honestly, I think Guile Viper is even maybe 5.5 in Viper’s favor with her nerfs and Guile’s buffs. It’s nowhere near as bad as it was in SF4. Booms from afar are actually a bad idea, imo, because it makes Guile more susceptible to the Seismo game rather then if he was doing them from closer range just because of Seismo’s long recovery. Viper has to be predictive in order to beat your Sonic Boom with Jab TK or the overhead when your doing them at close range. Couple with EX Sonic Boom and you can limit her Seismo zoning games. I think Guile has a easier time against Viper if he’s up in her face then playing his usual zoning game just because Viper has answers to his zoning game vs his pressure game. I’ve had Guile’s bait out the jump ins with up close booms then just air throw me. If you see Viper SJ from mid to full screen distance you can just air throw her on reaction. You have to be careful with your pressure game especially if you’ve got her in the corner. A lot of Guile’s throw a boom and then hide behind it to pressure her with some normals afterwards. Well if you wait till she blocks the boom then go for an attack she could EX Seismo in between and then Ultra 1 you right afterwards.

In regards to Juri or Viper. I use both and I feel that the overall better choice is Viper but if doesn’t hurt to be proficient with both characters as they sort of compliment each other. Unfortunately, both characters share some common bad match ups so in terms of going against the top tier characters they have issues with Rog, Bison, Blanka, Honda, and Abel. Juri has an easier time with Rog, Bison, and Honda but she really gets owned by Abel, Chun, Guile, and Deejay. Viper loses to Abel but not as badly as Juri does but she handle Chun, Guile, and Deejay fairly easily. Viper loses to Gief in general but she can beat Gief with patience and really good spacing but Juri can really man handle Gief. Viper loses to Rufus but Juri goes even against him. Viper goes even with Ryu while Juri loses to him slightly (5.5 in Ryu’s favor, imo).

In terms of character dynamics Viper is just a very demanding character to use because she has average reversal moves, slow normals, and high execution requirements. When put on the defensive you have limited options and need to have a solid defense and in order to generate momentum you have to be flexible, patient, and creative. There is no ez mode move with Viper so just like how you need to know the fundamentals to any character multiply that by 10 with Viper. She is one the fastest walking characters in the game, which makes a huge difference when it comes to spacing and footsies. Her footsies are bad in a sense that her normals are slow but her walk speed really helps in this department as it makes walking in and out of your opponent’s ranges really easy. Once you get use to the speed and range of her normals you will come to appreciate her footsie game quite a bit. There’s something that’s really rewarding when you out footsie certain characters with Viper and whiff punish them hard with something like c.FeircexxEX Seismo. It’s just like “HA! I just out footsied you with an 8f normal, bitch!”

Juri is a much less aggressive character then Viper as she has really superior pokes. She’s in the middle ground of zoning and aggression as she can’t strictly zone for an entire match nor can she rushdown. You have to sort play the middle ground and captialize on the opportunities based on the match up and distance between her and the opponent. She has some really solid normals that allow for great poking and compliment her fireball zoning well and although it would give her good footsie potential her walk speed is ass that it hurts her footsie game significantly. However, the hitbox of her normals are quite good that for the most part you can stick it out and relatively beat out a lot of other normals with proper spacing and reads of course. She’s not execution heavy at all but defensively she’s in a worse position then Viper. Both of her best reversal options are really weak and leave her incredibly vulnerable when baited and only one can be FADC’d for safety but requires it to be FADC’d on the first hit and your blowing 3 bars for it. All of her specials are unsafe so you outside of the corner you have this feeling of limited aggression when pressuring your opponent.

yup, viper guile isn’t that bad anymore, viper just makes guild play out of his element, its a weak 6-4 at best, plus ppl understand how to fight viper now. IMO, the dash ultras make this fight much more even than ppl originally thought i to be.

[kraal]

I picked up Viper because she’s the fucking masterpiece and most interesting character in SSFIV. Who gives a fuck about anything else?

True for the masterpiece part, but there are people who want to win consistently without completely outplaying their opponent…

[rushx5]

Honestly, I think Guile Viper is even maybe 5.5 in Viper’s favor with her nerfs and Guile’s buffs. It’s nowhere near as bad as it was in SF4. Booms from afar are actually a bad idea, imo, because it makes Guile more susceptible to the Seismo game rather then if he was doing them from closer range just because of Seismo’s long recovery. Viper has to be predictive in order to beat your Sonic Boom with Jab TK or the overhead when your doing them at close range. Couple with EX Sonic Boom and you can limit her Seismo zoning games. I think Guile has a easier time against Viper if he’s up in her face then playing his usual zoning game just because Viper has answers to his zoning game vs his pressure game. I’ve had Guile’s bait out the jump ins with up close booms then just air throw me. If you see Viper SJ from mid to full screen distance you can just air throw her on reaction. You have to be careful with your pressure game especially if you’ve got her in the corner. A lot of Guile’s throw a boom and then hide behind it to pressure her with some normals afterwards. Well if you wait till she blocks the boom then go for an attack she could EX Seismo in between and then Ultra 1 you right afterwards.

Air throwing isn’t really effective since viper can just do a burning kick in mid-air if the range is far. If it’s close, she would throw out a normal which beats air throw clean. Rushing Viper down seems very risky. Her lp thunder knuckle goes under most of guile’s normals, is armor breaking and is safe on block.

[Rake_Clown]

Yoooooo,

can someone give me list of things learn for viper, like 1st to last in terms of importance? im trying to get used to this character as efficiently as possible, my executions alright and i understand the fundamentals i think (mained Gen for over a year and can piano hands fadc into links and what not). i jumped straight in and learnt how to do FFF which i can do along with EX siesmo into follow ups about 9/10 times.

just came off training mode and wondered if im going about learning her the right way is all. so if there’s a link to something that could help me or if anyone wants to include some input id be grateful. much apreciated.

[Paladinight]

http://shoryuken.com/f254/viper-curriculum-246178/

Read all the links posted on that thread by subzero44

[XxDiana_PrinceXx]

Hi everyone,

Why vipers mash light kick burning heel during block string??

why oh why?? :annoy:

just wondering :xeye:

Di,

[eightbO]

Hi everyone,

Why vipers mash light kick burning heel during block string??

why oh why?? :annoy:

sounds like someone’s tick throws got blown up.

[Tr_pzt_r]

What causes reversals in this game as far as the focus attack mechanics are concerned? The reason I ask is because any reversal special viper uses (grounded burn kick, seismo) on a focus, breaks armor. Is there a specific point in the focus where a reversal window is open to exploit, or is it more or the release timing of said FA? In general people should not focus Viper but it really can not be helped at times, especially when you get to the point where your seismos and spacing force people into risky guesses and situations.