821

Ok whoever makes the Nemesis matchup thread please call it

“Nemesis’ Nemesises - The Nemesis Matchups Thread”

822

Hey guys, I know it’s pretty close to release anyway but I’ve managed to grab some promo copies of the game for a pre-launch event that we’re doing here in Melbourne this weekend. Myself and the http://www.shadowloo.com guys will be playing around with the game tonight and I’m going to be mostly messing with Nemesis and Rocket Raccoon so if there’s anything that you guys want me to test please let me know in the next couple of hours so I can test and get back to you all. I’m not the best player but so long as it’s not anything super fancy I should be able to swing it.

Cheers,
Loki

823

Hyper Armor on Nemesis Bio-Hazard Rush (Dragon Punch ATK ATK) how much does it have? also the amount of armor his Rocket Launcher slam attacks do, In particiular I want to know what Dragon Punch H does because I think it might be more than a wall bounce.

824

What I deduced from the norcal 2 stream

Nemesis has got some pretty decent keepaway since a single hit from the rocket will knock you back because of it’s soft knockdown state. The rockets also have a big hitbox when they explode and the projectile itself travels fast

Nemesis’ hyper armor can be stopped by any grab, it was stopped by Hulk’s regular ground throw. This might be a problem as Nemesis may be vulnerable to grabs espicially right before his final punch on Biohazard Rush

Biohazard Rush seemed to have full hyper armor as no one wanted to dare interrupt it without a grab.

Tentacle grab L DOES NOT HIT AIR IDK WHY EVERYONE KEEPS TRYING THIS LOL.

Nemesis in XF1 is very deadly, he ToD Nova with two non-combo Bio-Hazard rockets with only one of them being XF’ed

Hitbox on j.H is big as ever

Deadly reach in the air can be canceled by Rockets for whatever reason

There IS a way to point your rocket from the ground at a 45 degree upward angle dunno the input.

People still don’t like Nemesis :3

RL Slams seem to have allot of armor maybe even hyper.

RL Slam H knocks into wallbounce however if a wallbounce already happened it just hits the opponent into a very long stun state on the other side of the screen and into a hard knockdown. .

assists hitting the opponent during BIohazard Rockets can mess it up.

825

So on the NvC2 stream, LPN did Bio Assault against a Wright, but the Wright rolled out of the rockets I think at the thrid one and he ended up blocking the stomp. Was it due to HSD (really unlikely unless Nem’s HSD is shit)? Bad timing?

EDIT: Oh, it was an assist that messed it up. Gotcha.

Bio Rush will have to be used very carefully. Even if the first four punches connect, I think he can be grabbed in the period between 4 and 5 like Hulk did to him.

And yeah, I was curious about the upward ground rocket. I thought it could only go straight. THis could help with spacing and conditioning.

826

Hey guys, apologies if any of this has been made obsolete by the stream, I was playing the game so I didn’t get a chance to watch any of it yet. I did play a bunch of games with Nemesis though so here’s the notes I jotted down between getting destroyed by Firebrand.

  • His health is definitely 1.15, I tested a combo which did basically that much (XF’d Nemesis BnB on another Nemesis) and he died at that point

  • BioHazard Rush has exactly 10 hits of armour. I tested this with Dante’s Million Dollars and Rocket Racoon’s Rock and Roll hypers. If I activated from the other side of the screen and it stopped Nemesis after 10 hits. (I tested by the amount of hits it did to him raw and after knocking him out of the hyper, without mashing).
    An interesting point, Wesker could not hyper counter the startup of the move, I thought initially this was to do with Nemesis but it turned out that the startup of Wesker’s counter is no longer invul. When I did BioHazard Rush from further away he could successfully counter me once the first hit of my hyper whiffed.
    The startup of BioHazard Rush however is not invul either, this was really disappointing as despite it’s armour you can’t pull it out as a GTFO hail mary. Many times I was hit out of the startup of the move trying this. It’s definitely better for countering hyper activations than anything else.

Edit: Oh, since people are talking about being grabbed out of BioHazard Rush, yeah it happened to me too, after blocking the first few hits it’s easy for the opponent to throw you before the last hit. You can also be thrown earlier too as it’s quite slow but obviously that’s more risky.

  • The tentacle grabs were not blockable as far as I tested. I think someone suggested they might be so I thought I’d make sure.

  • The Level 3 does not hit if the enemy is not on the ground, I put a dummy next to me jumping and it was almost impossible to hit them if they were the tiniest bit off the ground. It does have a little horizontal range though, maybe one and a half mid-size character lengths. It also doesn’t OTG.

  • I tried to work out some reset situations to land the tentacle grabs. The very basic setup I did come up with was ending your air combo in one of the tentacle air normals (air df.H or f.H) rather than air.S. This will cause Nemesis to fall faster than the enemy and cause them to flip and air recover. This gives you enough time to do an M or H tentacle grab, throw them back in the corner and start the combo again. You can also jump right back up and pump them with j.H or j.S if they press anything.

  • I messed around trying to use the rocket launcher in combos but it seems like it’s not very good for that at all. I thought maybe I could get some kind of relaunch combo going by using the rocket launcher in the air but the recovery is way too long so even if you hit the enemy you can’t combo after it. It was good for keeping a character locked down full screen though. I was calling Doom’s Hidden Missiles assist and doing an air RL to cover him and once the rocket hit (Phoenix Wright trying to get clues from fullscreen) the hidden missiles would hit and I could either follow up if I was fast enough (with df.H on the ground) or start again. The df. H tentacles in the air were also really good for hitting people trying to zone you out from fullscreen.

  • I wanted to see what kind of damage (non XF) that Nemesis gained from having an OTG assist and it’s fairly considerable, I am now really considering making sure one of my assists for him can OTG. The issue however here was scaling. For example a magic series BnB into the RL Hyper did about 600k on it’s own, but if I used Wesker to OTG after the knockdown, then did another simple aircombo (H then S was all I could get) that went up to 730k. (no XF, 1 meter), then if I cancelled into a good followup hyper I was getting very close to 900k for 2 bars. However if I used Ghost Rider’s OTG which hits about 6 times I lost about 100k off that combo. Something to keep in mind.

  • I had trouble finding any use for Clocket M or H, still not sure what they’re for.

  • I didn’t get a chance to try out too many of his assists as I was playing around with him on point most of the time. He definitely benefits from assists who cover him getting in however, hidden missiles and drones were great for this and the few games I played where I had both I basically had complete freedom of movement so long as Ghost Rider didn’t tag my assist and kill him from fullscreen. As I mentioned before getting more damage out of him may require an OTG assist though.

  • I had a lot of fun with the character for sure, I think his game is going to require a lot more command grab setups to really consistently do damage though, he’s so slow and lumbering that even when I was really well covered by assists it was difficult to open people up. You can land a somewhat ambiguous j.H as a crossup but past that I found myself towards the end of the games using the L tentacle once people started blocking as the damage was still really good on the followup combo.

Anything I’ve missed? Feel free to ask questions. I still have the game so I’m happy to test out things when I can find time after work.

827

Thanks for testing man, really appreciate it though I think you missed testing if animation type hypers stop Bio-hazard rush like Cuttin’Time or Maximum Spider and the armor on his RL Slam moves but regardless thanks.

Reactions

-1.15mil, no wonder his health feels so low thats barely above Wesker’s old health. him having the most health in the game? doubt it, if Hulk and thor are unchanged he’s 3rd highest.

-10 hits of hyper armor is a bit disappointing but that is allot to compensate. I’m mostly disappointed at the invul startup being taken away, in Nemesis’ reveal trailer he clearly has invulnerable start up as he uses it against She Hulk at least I think so. This move if it had invul startup would be so much better as a GTFO

-So assist scaling is where it gets him, I have plans to use the Vajra assist of Strider’s to help him which will prevent super jumpers and will help me control the screen as for Dormmamu, well i’ve got an idea to use with him.

-So it’s pretty much clear don’t use Clocket M or H unless your going to XFC for whatever reason

-On the reset situations ending a ground chain with RL Slam L seemed to be perfect for resets, keep that in mind though I like the idea of falling faster with DF H

828

Oh sorry, animation hypers did seem to bust through Biohazard Rush, I got hit by a handful of level 3’s and X-23s running-across-screen level 1 hyper as well without trading at all. I’ll test Cutting Time and Maximum Spider later tonight to be certain.

And something I posted in the Rocket thread that people might be curious about:
Oh, and I should mention that Rocket and Frank are not in the intro trailer for the game. It’s actually that freeze-frame, matrix camera video that was put up a few weeks back, exactly the same as it was online. There are plenty of characters that aren’t in that trailer though so it’s not that it was done too early or anything. It’s probably like vanilla though in that there’ll be other intro movies to unlock. No-one bothered to play through arcade mode.

One cool thing is that all of the characters are unlocked by default. However, this could be because I had an MvC3 save on the console already as it seemed like it had stuff unlocked in the Gallery that I must have already unlocked on vanilla. I think they’re unlocked by default though as we had 4 copies going and I suspect one of those hadn’t ever had MvC3 in it since it was borrowed. Can’t say this for 100% certain but I think this is the case. It also gave me a “you unlocked Galactus for arcade mode” when I first booted the game too.

829

There was more than one Intro movie? /dumfounded

830

Well I don’t think they played by default but in the Gallery there were a few extra videos to play.

831

'Ppreciate your testing him out. Now we have a solid base to work from until the game comes out.

As for Rush and Wesker’s counter and the like losing their startup invuln, it’s because it takes place after the flash now. Not sure if that was changed mid-development.

Are there any uses for his normal grab, or is it just better to go for the command grab? Any follow ups after the airgrab? Or any tick throw setups on the ground?

832

I didn’t find any particular use for his normal grab, it puts them a fair way away mid-screen (didn’t test that in the corner) so I think you could probably do the RL Hyper to follow up but I can’t be sure. I’ll test that tonight if I get a chance.

I found it really difficult to get an air throw, it might have just been the characters I was playing against but against someone like Phoenix Wright he always beat me out clean. The one time I did get an airthrow I was caught by surprise and didn’t think to try anything. I don’t think it bounces them or anything so I doubt you’ll be able to follow up but I’ll look into that too.

No tick throw setups I’ve found just yet, most of his normals don’t leave him very close or at a good frame advantage but I was having a bit of luck closing distance with the df H shoulder charge normal while being covered by drones or hidden missiles, then using the light tentacle. I’m sure there’ll be something though, I’ll see what I can come up with.

833

Ok, I’m in training mode at the moment and working some stuff up.

  • The motion for the upwards rocket launcher is dragon punch forward and S.
  • You can combo off the air and ground throws by either going straight into the RL Hyper or doing an immediate TK air rocket however there appears to be no follow up to that without an assist. It’d still be very difficult to follow up from the rocket anyway since it will only hit if the thrown character is fullscreen away (eg. the backthrow from the corner)
  • You can tick throw with light tentacle right after crouching L is blocked, or you can slightly delay it after standing L. The tentacles are cancellable from normals but if the character is still in blockstun they get blocked. You can use tentacle to cancel a negative normal but it’s not safe on block either so there’s not much point.

Edit: Something only vaguely worthy of note, you can do LMH into light clocket, into heavy clocket so long as you’re not close to the corner, but that’s where the combo ends. Not worth it as far as I can tell, but just thought I’d mention it as we’re still trying to puzzle out M and H clocket

834

Have anybody ever tested if Nemesis command grab/level 3 can go through Modok, Nova, Phoenix’s barrier? I have a strong feeling that Nemesis could punish all of those characters if he is in range for command grab. I have a theory that a grab box huge range aren’t effected by barriers at all. Know this sounds goofy, but Skrull way back in Vanilla can actually grab through MODOK’s barrier. I’m pretty sure Nemesis might have enough range on his level 3, or his other command grab to do it too.

835

Thank you and thank you. Updating the 101 thread.

836

Outstanding job guys, kudos.

I’m definitely fascinated by the big guy, hopefully with the right char slot and assist cover he’ll be bringing that pain !

837

i’ve got so many dirty little tricks, dumb combos, and teams i wanna try with nemesis

838

I still feel like in order to get the most out of this guy, we really have to treat him like a grappler. Go for those tick throws and resets.

Seems like a character who is ‘easy’ to play but ‘hard’ to play smartly.

839

Don’t you mean “easy to play, hard to play effectively?”

840

Isn’t that how haggar was supposed to be but didn’t really turn out too well? I mean yes his grabs and resets are great but you shouldn’t be spamming them all over the stage. He has tools other than his ability to reset, which you must also use wisely.