Bringing Sexy Back - Nemesis Discussion Thread (Pg.18 and beyond)

Airtola · 2012-04-24T04:03:47.000Z

Thanks for the Strider matchup experience fellas, really needed that.
Rocket launcher assist is soft knockdown no matter what.
Can’t wait to see those matches myself

Colonel-Gilgamesh · 2012-04-24T04:53:02.000Z

Thanks for the Strider matchup experience fellas, really needed that.
Rocket launcher assist is soft knockdown no matter what.
Can’t wait to see those matches myself

I don’t care that I won twice out of, like, 30 matches, that one Strider comeback is totally worth the pain and sweat and pain and pain and pain

motion51 · 2012-04-24T06:45:31.000Z

i want to play someone from these boards! too bad im on 360 i guess!

Robert_Bonner · 2012-04-24T07:08:54.000Z

Considering we use a nearly identical team, I like clothesline. Your Vergil definitely acts differently than my X-23, but I like clothesline assist just because the rocket on the second hit makes them wanna crouch, which is lovely for my command throw, but it also helpful for Vergil’s quicker mixups. Also, the two hits really keeps them still, and it has a very nice hit range, which I say less about Clothesline. And I think though Launcher Slam is a tiny bit better for combo extension, whatever.

By the way, welcome to the Nemesis threads. Glad to have you with us. I’m also happy to see that you’re using a team I thought of using myself. I’m just not as comfortable with Vergil as I am with X-23. I’m curious as to what Nemesis/rapid slash tech you came up with.

Thanks man. I use Vergil’s rapid slash as a way 1) get people off of me that really rushdown like doom, 2) extend combos if I am in the corner, similar to how zero uses it in combos, and 3) to occasionally setup a reset, since the assist hits them and then they flip out allowing you to grab them with tentacle slam. if they guard and it is full-screen it still pushes them back so i can c.H and kara cancel it into a tentacle slam since it has a lot of range. That’s the most that i have been able to get out of it so far. I mostly use it with Hawkeye to keep people away from him, but he also has his uses with nemesis.

DukeofFortuneMan · 2012-04-24T08:54:27.000Z

I’ve been doing that for awhile. Though i’d rather do it at far, since its relatively unsafe. c.H’s armor is almost irrelevant, it starts up WAY too late to matter. I’ve been dashing by either wave dashing or c.H into Clothesline L. The thing is though, to use his level 3 you pretty much have to surprise your opponent with it, you can’t just do it raw. in all of my successes with the level 3 it’s been by surprise and the opponent’s offense was shut down for the most part. It’s not something done every now and then. For whatever reason the grab is not 1frame and is not invincible, damn you capcom. Damn you.

Naw, that’s not what I meant. I’m aware of the late armor, and everything about crouching H that I need to know, but I mean to whiff the crouching H as a tactic against an incoming opponent, cross them up, and then as they hit the ground use the level 3 hyper. I’m looking for ways to poke holes in it, but it seems to be a pretty solid setup for incoming, as well as a setup for Nem’s level 3 special. You said Airtola dashed under and did a level 3, which is what gave me the idea. Since you’re activating it a teeny bit before the opponent gets in range, the armor is in full swing by the time they have any chance of hitting you. You can also chain to special moves (armor if need be) if they read it and fly/double jump away, and you’ll probly be relatively safe. There’s most likely even a tiny chance you’ll do what is essentially the Taskmaster shield skills incoming crossup, and be able to get some easy damage. If they use a high-hitbox attack and try to stop your swag, armor. If they read you, either more armor or cancelling into something safe. And if they block it, they have some nice tentacles in the form of level 3 as soon as they land.

I think I might be on to something fun here. I have tried the incoming crossup to level 3 with c.H 4 times now, 1 of which had not succeeded, but only because of an input error on my part. Please, someone burst my bubble, or prove me correct. Either way.

extend combos if I am in the corner, similar to how zero uses it in combos
I mostly use it with Hawkeye to keep people away from him, but he also has his uses with nemesis.

Hrm…how on earth do you get Hawkeye out in front on your team? I always find that my other two want the assist so much, and the DHC is so weak, that I almost never find a reason to get Hawkeye out of anchor. I do like the idea of Vergil making Hawkeye closer to untouchable, though.

And, isn’t Vergil used often, then, simply because Nemesis can move people pretty far across the screen with that clothesline, and if you manage some jumping attacks for a ground bounce afterwards, you may be able to cover some serious distance. I wanted too try that team out, and I thought there would be a ton of situations where I could bring them to the corner and then vergil, launch, that whole thing. Dang to hear that’s less simple than it seems.

Hrm…what about vergil on point? I wasn’t sure which order I’d want myself, but you’ve played the team more, so I’m curious. I’d try the team setup out for myself, but I’m currently a crappy vergil (I only know that silly rapid slash devil trigger crossup and teleport+assist), so I doubt I’d get an accurate read of which order works better.

Fuzzykips · 2012-04-24T09:05:19.000Z

i want to play someone from these boards! too bad im on 360 i guess!

Hey, what’s your GT? I’m on 360 as well! We should play some sets. :3

GT: Soletz

OnlyWingedAngel · 2012-04-24T21:27:50.000Z

Naw, that’s not what I meant. I’m aware of the late armor, and everything about crouching H that I need to know, but I mean to whiff the crouching H as a tactic against an incoming opponent, cross them up, and then as they hit the ground use the level 3 hyper. I’m looking for ways to poke holes in it, but it seems to be a pretty solid setup for incoming, as well as a setup for Nem’s level 3 special. You said Airtola dashed under and did a level 3, which is what gave me the idea. Since you’re activating it a teeny bit before the opponent gets in range, the armor is in full swing by the time they have any chance of hitting you. You can also chain to special moves (armor if need be) if they read it and fly/double jump away, and you’ll probly be relatively safe. There’s most likely even a tiny chance you’ll do what is essentially the Taskmaster shield skills incoming crossup, and be able to get some easy damage. If they use a high-hitbox attack and try to stop your swag, armor. If they read you, either more armor or cancelling into something safe. And if they block it, they have some nice tentacles in the form of level 3 as soon as they land.

Ah wasn’t aware you were referring to an incoming character, in that case yes that sounds plausible. Gilgamesh actually does this as his incoming mixup,c.H that is.

DukeofFortuneMan · 2012-04-24T22:03:53.000Z

Ah wasn’t aware you were referring to an incoming character, in that case yes that sounds plausible. Gilgamesh actually does this as his incoming mixup,c.H that is.

Yeahyeah, I do something similar when I play Tasky, with shield skills. I just never thought of putting a level 3 hyper at the end of it.

Also, when I finally play Gilgamesh, that will be good to know

harleywastaken · 2012-04-24T23:11:10.000Z

i want to play someone from these boards! too bad im on 360 i guess!

<–

motion51 · 2012-04-25T00:17:30.000Z

hooray free losses!

gt - hyuuga kenshin

Robert_Bonner · 2012-04-25T02:24:22.000Z

Hrm…how on earth do you get Hawkeye out in front on your team? I always find that my other two want the assist so much, and the DHC is so weak, that I almost never find a reason to get Hawkeye out of anchor. I do like the idea of Vergil making Hawkeye closer to untouchable, though.

And, isn’t Vergil used often, then, simply because Nemesis can move people pretty far across the screen with that clothesline, and if you manage some jumping attacks for a ground bounce afterwards, you may be able to cover some serious distance. I wanted too try that team out, and I thought there would be a ton of situations where I could bring them to the corner and then vergil, launch, that whole thing. Dang to hear that’s less simple than it seems.

Hrm…what about vergil on point? I wasn’t sure which order I’d want myself, but you’ve played the team more, so I’m curious. I’d try the team setup out for myself, but I’m currently a crappy vergil (I only know that silly rapid slash devil trigger crossup and teleport+assist), so I doubt I’d get an accurate read of which order works better.

It all just depends on how the game plays out. I usually pull him out if i know I can kill with the DHC. I use his DP hyper, the Kiss of Fire, for the DHC and if that doesn’t do it, follow up with gimlet. Also if they try zoning me or its someone I know is weak to zoning or that I do not want near me i pull him out too. He’s a really good character that can hold his own with or without assists. I agree that his own assist is invaluable to most teams that use him, but he is also amazing with assists given the chance. It all depends on your team I feel. On a side note XF2 or 3 hawkeye is ridiculous.

Yes, I do use vergil alot as well. Since Nemmy can go offensive or defensive I can use Vergil for either the same purpose I use him for Hawkeye, or to slowly approach and then proceed to start combos. The clothesline you mentioned is just one example. On a side note I tried doing a reset off the assist in training recently and it didn’t work like I thought it would, which is weird because I know I’ve done it before, but whatever, he has so many reset options anyway it isn’t that bad.

Vergil can definitely work on point, however I feel he works much better as a 2ndary or anchor character, primarily because he is a meter whore and Nemesis can build that meter for him. As an anchor he can access x factor and become dark wesker and gain the touch of death easily. If you were try out the team i would definitely put Nemmy first since he just doesn’t seem to work anywhere else, vergil second, and hawkeye last. You can play around with the order but this one seems to work best for me. Hope this helps.

PS. Also with vergil you can do the rapid slash crossup you know and then do spiral swords followed by two DP+M to continue to combo.

DukeofFortuneMan · 2012-04-25T06:04:20.000Z

It all just depends on how the game plays out. I usually pull him out if i know I can kill with the DHC. I use his DP hyper, the Kiss of Fire, for the DHC and if that doesn’t do it, follow up with gimlet. Also if they try zoning me or its someone I know is weak to zoning or that I do not want near me i pull him out too. He’s a really good character that can hold his own with or without assists. I agree that his own assist is invaluable to most teams that use him, but he is also amazing with assists given the chance. It all depends on your team I feel.

Ah. My situation is that my DHC to X-23 can either set-up a throw reset on those who don’t know it (Rage Trigger), or the more damaging one puts them into an awkward position for wakeup where I can get mad mixups on a back roll, and pressure and mild chip on a forward roll (Her DP super, I never pay attention to the name), or for Thor, I can actually combo into the level 3. Also, on the negative, my DHC from X-23 to Hawkeye, or even to Nemesis, is so shit (Rage Trigger reduces damage like a motherfucker) that it never seems feasible. So I don’t get assisted Hawkeye enough. I occasionally play with him of front just for the experience, but my assists aren’t optimized for him in front. Surprisingly, though, he can be a bitch with clotheline assists at keeping away, and can protect Nem from everything 'cept beam supers and that damned Viper.

On a side note XF2 or 3 hawkeye is ridiculous.

YUP!

Yes, I do use vergil alot as well. Since Nemmy can go offensive or defensive I can use Vergil for either the same purpose I use him for Hawkeye, or to slowly approach and then proceed to start combos. The clothesline you mentioned is just one example. On a side note I tried doing a reset off the assist in training recently and it didn’t work like I thought it would, which is weird because I know I’ve done it before, but whatever, he has so many reset options anyway it isn’t that bad.

Good to know. I’ll be looking for tech here and there, so if I find anything out myself, I’ll bring it here. I’m never dropping X-23, but learning Nem/Vergil stuff won’t hurt me.

Vergil can definitely work on point, however I feel he works much better as a 2ndary or anchor character, primarily because he is a meter whore and Nemesis can build that meter for him. As an anchor he can access x factor and become dark wesker and gain the touch of death easily. If you were try out the team i would definitely put Nemmy first since he just doesn’t seem to work anywhere else, vergil second, and hawkeye last. You can play around with the order but this one seems to work best for me. Hope this helps.

Ah, same reason my X-23 is second. Meter whore, X-factor loops, and that Unblockable level 3 = <3. I’d want a lockdown assist for her if I really wanted to be a bitch, but beam and a wall bounce seems to be doing well for me thusfar. Oh god, X-23, Vergil, Hawkeye sounds brutal, but Nemmy is too cute to just leave sitting there.

PS. Also with vergil you can do the rapid slash crossup you know and then do spiral swords followed by two DP+M to continue to combo.

I was vaguely aware I could rapid slash then swords, but that’s good to know. I played a day 1 Vergil, and can play an okay footsies game with him offline, but I dropped him for love of X-23, Haggar, Ammy, Skrull, Dorm (who I don’t use much anymore, poo), Deadpool, Felicia, Joe, Frank, a few others, and Nemesis especially. There were too many characters I wanted to learn, so Vergil fell by the wayside. But I’ve been curious to actually learn his complex stuff; MODOK is first on my list of new guys, but I’m too much of a DMC fan to not play one of the brothers. They always felt like a blast to play, and they also seem like the types who have endless tech with different assists. Fun summer projects

Robert_Bonner · 2012-04-26T00:18:38.000Z

I was vaguely aware I could rapid slash then swords, but that’s good to know. I played a day 1 Vergil, and can play an okay footsies game with him offline, but I dropped him for love of X-23, Haggar, Ammy, Skrull, Dorm (who I don’t use much anymore, poo), Deadpool, Felicia, Joe, Frank, a few others, and Nemesis especially. There were too many characters I wanted to learn, so Vergil fell by the wayside. But I’ve been curious to actually learn his complex stuff; MODOK is first on my list of new guys, but I’m too much of a DMC fan to not play one of the brothers. They always felt like a blast to play, and they also seem like the types who have endless tech with different assists. Fun summer projects

[/quote]

Ya Vergil is definitely really worth checking out. I always preferred him to Dante, but I plan to try and learn him soon as well. Its cool to see how many characters you know. I am trying to do the same thing actually. My mains will always be Nemmy and the other two. He’s just too sexy to stop using, but I am trying to learn Jill, Dante, Frank, Deadpool, MODOK, Phoenix W., Viewtiful Joe, Amaterasu, and basically everyone else, but starting with those guys in particular. I just recently made team low tier (Iron Fist, Thor, and Arthur) and team resident evil (Wesker, Chris, my jill still sucks though). I know this is probably the wrong thread to discuss this in, but I thought it was cool to meet another person playing a lot of the cast.

DukeofFortuneMan · 2012-04-26T01:07:43.000Z

Ya Vergil is definitely really worth checking out. I always preferred him to Dante, but I plan to try and learn him soon as well. Its cool to see how many characters you know. I am trying to do the same thing actually. My mains will always be Nemmy and the other two. He’s just too sexy to stop using, but I am trying to learn Jill, Dante, Frank, Deadpool, MODOK, Phoenix W., Viewtiful Joe, Amaterasu, and basically everyone else, but starting with those guys in particular. I just recently made team low tier (Iron Fist, Thor, and Arthur) and team resident evil (Wesker, Chris, my jill still sucks though). I know this is probably the wrong thread to discuss this in, but I thought it was cool to meet another person playing a lot of the cast.

Sweet. Don’t be impressed, though. By “know”, you mean I have a very basic sense of how to move with the character, and a bad bnb or two. I’d say my main two teams and Haggar are the characters I can actually do decently with, but Deadpool, X-23, and Hawkeye I still think have a lot to learn. They all just ride off the X-factor, or X-23’s cheap-ass level 3. MODOK I’m trying to learn a new piece of tech with him every time I go into training, but I rarely get access to a lab. So far I only have a ranged spam game with him, and I just learned a solo combo for 550-600k off any throw, which I’m damn proud of. I just don’t have any good non-throw combos, lol.

Oh, and I like your list. You have my idea of not using the toppest of tiers, for the most part. Deadpool is fun, I like using his quick work with Frank lvl4 for midscreen unblockables, and he’s not terrible in X-factor because of his broken infinites (I feel bad, but that doesn’t stop me). Ammy is also amazing. She’s fast, got good footsies, has that THC unfairness setup with anyone who’s got mixups. I barely have combos at all with her, and I still feel really solid with her. Also, good luck with that list of dudes to learn. You seem to have picked tough ones. Arthur’s movement (I’m referencing Bum’s arthur on this, who I think is one of the world’s best) is so damn input-heavy, and his tech gets odd and really finicky. Jill, fuck if I know, she’s got so much. MODOK is entirely difficult technology, and so is Phoenix Wright. Joe’s got bomb assist loops, which are weird, and hard longer combos, and Ammy has every tool ever. You have your work cut out for you. Good luck, and I hope to see a bitchin’ PW or Frank team comin’ my way someday.

Oh, and I know a few good people to watch for cool tech. Yay for being a stream monster! For Joe, Howtoread does some amazing stuff, he also plays Jill. Arthur, I just look at Bum’s stuff, he probly uses his alts in some House of Crack archives. Check out RoyalFlush, by the way, he plays Thor, MODOK, Joe. Odd team, he rocks it, has tech for days. Phoenix Wright, I can only think of Basic Sausage. He’s wonderful, and has dirty, dirty crossups with Hulk and log trap.

And, finally, have some tech for PW. I knew a shitty PW back in the day (he was basically living off Haggar’s spin alone), and I know a few things of tech with Maya super 1. Maya Super lets you move before it’s over, and the last shot of maya is a low. So, that means you can set-up solo unblockables with his standing overhead, that can lead to full combos. Makes lvl1 PW a boss too. 2. Maya staying after you can move again also allows for some cheese on a DHC. If you kill someone, then DHC to Maya either after the kill or right before, I forget which, their next player does not come in until maya completely leaves. This gives you time to search for an insane amount of evidence. 3. DHC setup for objection. Viewtiful Joe’s super has enough hitstun that you can wait and DHC to maya, it connects, go up to them and get that free objection, become the killyest.

Colonel-Gilgamesh · 2012-04-26T05:17:52.000Z

Anyone planning on coming to Season’s Beatings in a few weeks?

I’m planning on heading out myself and wouldn’t mind meeting up with people

TheCape · 2012-04-27T20:26:46.000Z

Cant make it, working all day that Saturday sadly.

insanelee · 2012-04-27T23:13:27.000Z

slowly but surely nemesis getting more exposure x_x

i die a little everytime a wesker blocks nem qcfL and doesnt command grab nem for it.

Robert_Bonner · 2012-04-28T01:05:27.000Z

slowly but surely nemesis getting more exposure x_x

i die a little everytime a wesker blocks nem qcfL and doesnt command grab nem for it.

I love when I pull that off… =)

DukeofFortuneMan · 2012-04-28T01:14:01.000Z

slowly but surely nemesis getting more exposure x_x

i die a little everytime a wesker blocks nem qcfL and doesnt command grab nem for it.

How does everyone here counter that normally, command throws after a blocked Nemesis QCF Light? I usually just try to keep my distance on certain matchups, or move my game more to the air (the severely limited air game that my team has, lol), but if anyone’s got some fun stuff, I’d be glad to hear it.

Colonel-Gilgamesh · 2012-04-28T01:19:56.000Z

How does everyone here counter that normally, command throws after a blocked Nemesis QCF Light? I usually just try to keep my distance on certain matchups, or move my game more to the air (the severely limited air game that my team has, lol), but if anyone’s got some fun stuff, I’d be glad to hear it.

Better question: How often do you grab people after a clothesline. I’ve got, like, a 70% accuracy rating