Man, that makes two things i seem to have had false ideas about …
1 - her shoulder seems to be qcf and not hc … this made doing c.jab, c.fierce, xx shoulder xx orochi move a lot easier to do.
2 - I always thought that her kick super was L3 only…
edit: I think today i will pick a-vice a couple of times and get my ass handed to me.
edit: :lol: according to gamefaqs her qcf+kick move should beat fireballs :lol: maybe if rcd… I can never seem to rc that move though.
it’s qcb+p actually… 
I always thought her long arm whip move was hcf+k, and not qcf?
Anyhow, one reason why it might be so hard to RC is that vice is cursed with having a not-full-motion special move. Her Nail Bomb is actually b,d/b,d,df+P. So it you try to RC you have to roll at down or you activate the special.
A-Vice is top tier!
ahhhh, that’s why … it just reminded me that I always get her grab instead of her low slash… If I could rc her low slash it would be sick. Anti fireball (even tho the fireball will still probably hit you, lol)
Actually N-Vice is probably the best Vice imo. She benefits a ton from run/low jump/roll, and her RC shoulder and hcf grab are really really good. RC roundhouse legs is decent too because it gives frame advantage. She also gets tons of level 1’s to burn. Her RC hcf+p grab is way harder to do consistently than other hcf moves for some reason though…
My friend who plays Vice refuses to post in this forum so I’ll relay his knowledge to the world instead.
I find a patient Vice a lot harder to fight than a running or low jumping one. C or A is the best IMO. She can land a CC off HP shoulder for one thing. qcb+HP, CC, s.HK xx qcb+HP, shoulders to the corner… too good :eek: Have you guys seen how much damage CC blade kicks do yet?
She has a jumping jab that does as much damage as a jumping fierce. Vice j.HP --> 1300. Vice j.LP xx qcb+HK --> 1300. It’s also humanly impossible to just defend (set the comp to all JD to see for yourself).
RC shoulder is the best anti-air RC in the entire game. It can’t be airblocked plus it’s completely safe when JD’d.
close s.MP gives you a huge frame advantage. You can safely mix it up with level 1 tick grab, s.HP xx whip/shoulder, or d.HK even (if the opponent wants to jump away).
The reason I think you’re finding RC hcf+p is hard to RC isn’t because you’re messing up, it’s because that special isn’t good to RC with in the first place. At first I didn’t believe it myself (move should be totally invincible right?), then I tested in training mode. Can’t even go through shoryukens never mind supers or anything like that. My theory is that the grab animation (startup and whiff) is too long and combined with Vice’s weird roll (she has invicibilty only above the waist towards the end) makes this move crappy. The hcb, f+P move grabs faster (?) and is a better RC.
…or maybe the incomplete hcf thing might be the totally be the problem too :lol:.
Anyway, I reiterate. Vice is good. It’s great that people think she sucks though 
Hmm, i dont have the time or means to learn vice, although ive always wanted to since i first started playing. the thing is she has lots of problems against ground characters such as cammy. and people who jump on your head such as vega its hard to rc shoulder against them. i didnt know you could activate off the shoulder though, that is pretty sick. c.jab, c.fierce shoulder CC, or rc shoulder AA CC… would be good … i tried juggling people to corner with shoulders before though, but i couldnt get the timing down … and sometimes they bounce behind you, or i drop them… and i dont trust my ability to tiger knee her scissor dealies just yet… although i tried once at my friends place and it wasnt that bad. (i dont have a stick or cvs2 at home, lol)
edit: i hate having to rely on RC though. RC shoulder as anti air would be sick, but i mean, there’s always that one time you get counter hit -> super when you fuck up …
Err… with the exception of the CC, everything else you posted about A/C Vice can be done with N-Vice. I like N-Vice better for a few reasons:
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Her low jump options are good. Low jump short is one of those “really hard to uppercut” low jump moves, kinda like Rock’s low jump roundhouse. After the low jump short you get your standard super grab mix ups. Makes it much easier for Vice to get in than a lot of other characters. Low jump short is also a really good cross up off of certain set ups. Low jump fierce is TOTALLY buff. Beats most everything and can you can combo a fierce shoulder afterwards also.
-
Her run sets up a WAY fatter cross up after her shoulder/pull down thingie than her dash does. One of the hardest to block in the game, in fact. Running also really compliments her attacking game… in which running jabs are still really useful since she always has the threat of RC grab or super grab, not to mention low jumps as another mix up.
Of course, patient Vice is the way to go until you get the knockdown. Once you do knock your opponent down, though, N-Vice can take much better advantage of the situation.
As for the RC hcf+p grab, it really is just harder to RC than other hcf moves. Vice’s and Athena’s grabs are WAY harder to RC than Morrigan’s and Todo’s. It’s still a really common misconception that the properties of a character’s roll affects their RCs. If that were the case, Chang’s, Guile’s and Cammy’s RCs would make them invincible for an inordinate amount of time. RC properties are the same for every character. When I do successfully RC Vice’s grab it works just as well as any other RC.
Wow most of the guys you listed arent even close to bottom tier. Haohmaru in the right hands is a beast, especially in P or K groove and can flat out dish punishment like a madman.
Rog’s lvl3 alone take his out of bottom tier contention, never mind his quick jabs, quick dash, quick roll and throws.
Ryo is underrated seriously, he has the one of the best antiair uppercuts in the game, he is a solid defensive character.
Raiden I dont really know much about but from what ive seen he is definetly not bottom tier.
Vice im not sure, ive played her for awhile and besides her solid antiair it seems she really doesnt have much going for her.
I play as Dhalsim in A and K.
K-Sim/Guile/ZangiefR2
K-Sim/Rolento/Guile-ZangielfR2
K-Sim/Cammy/Blanka-Sagat R2
K-Sim/Morrigan/KyoR2
K-Sim/Dan/Zangief R2 (yes it’s the “weakest team ever” , that’s
wut the scrubs think, but we all know those characters are good, especially Gief)
and
A-Sim/Sak/Bison
A-Sim/Mai-Guile-Vega-/Sakura-BisonR2
the great thing capcom did about sim is that they stereotype Indians as being skinny and annorexic. and if you didn’t know, throw range for all characters is 35 pixels from the center sprite, this excludes command throws. if you don’t know what i said there, i’ll just say dhalsim has mad throwing range.
you can’t ever jump in at sim, the risk of getting retaliation is higher than most characters. if the opponent slides you can either:
Slide
JD throw
l+mk,mp
Sim’s slides add to the mind game. they are very misleading. a great setup is , slide CC activate etc.
and his teleport is great too, i like to jump into my opponents , they DP, i teleport, CCactvate or whatever.
Dhalsim is actually a good character, he’s one of those characters people would use more often if he takes and gives just a little more damage, like Yun. Dhalsim isn’t top tier, so ignore my sig.
wait… I agree with you about that Dhalsim has good throw range, I feel the same way. but are you sure about this 35 pixels thing? because it seems to me certain characters (Raiden comes into mind) has crazy normal throw range. Raiden being the one thats exceptionally good at that can do a normal throw from SO far away it’s not even funny. that doesn’t look too much like 35 pixels to me, and certainly doesn’t look like the same range as other characters like Ryu.
Are you sure this is possible?
Some special way to do it or something?
Just tested for a good while and st. rh will NOT connect from a fp shoulder dash outside of the corner.
yes, 35 from the CENTER of the sprite. so since Dhalsim is skinny, technically he has more throw range, compared to someone fatter like E.Honda, and Raiden is a Rastler so i guess he has great throw range
I think the statement “Parrying everything you do.”
Reminds me of a long ago thread on SRK when an individual kept telling me Geese was top tier because he could counter everything.
Since you obviously didn’t check it, let me paste it here:
So you see, it IS from the center of the sprite, but Dhalsim’s is not 35 pixels, it is 52, just like just about everyone else BUT the exceptions listed.
It’s one of those one frame links. Again, Vice has a high learning curve. I’m 100% positive it works though. The recovery of the shoulder dash is deceptive. It looks like Vice has fully recovered and can do whatever she wants, but in reality you still have to wait for a split second before you CC. Double tap the HK button too.
double tap is definately not necesarry. and the s.rh after the shoulder doesnt work all the time.
