Shinvega… you said you find the devils reverse to be more useful than the head stomp. How so? I’m not doubting you, but at this point it feels to me like the stomp is far more useful, i was wondering what you’re doing with the reverse to make it not only AS useful as the stomp, but even more so?
Another question is about the headstomp… here is the pattern Ive seen used against me with the stomp… I was wondering how this is done so I can use it vs others: They fly at me and stomp, then the followup punch crosses over and hits from the other side. Ive even seen it where after the air punch, they land on the OTHER SIDE yet again! If that’s possible to do intentionally I’d like to know how. Tho most important is being able to cross over with the followup punch without whiffing and getting smacked when I land.
And I guess while Im posting about Bison, I’ll ask: with the fierce crusher, when it’s blocked, someone gets to throw after it’s over. Seems to go both ways. Should one side get the throw consistantly with the correct timing? or is it a matter of the engine picking a random winner in the event of a tie(which it does)? I just need to know if this situation is a weapon, or something to be avoided.
You have complete control over the devil reverse, and it has useful properties, like crossup, cancel, intentional whiff, and a.air. You control the special from start to finish.
Here are the controls for the headstomp: If you perform the headstomp and right before you hit the opp. you hold toward or away, that will determin the side of your opp. the skull diver comes from (this is important for crossup opportunities)!
The point at which you must strike your opp. in order to cause a cross-up is based on the hit boxes for that opp. stance at the time of your attempt (i.e. it all depends on the situation, check YBH). If the opp. blocks the stomp (opp. is in block stun) if you go to the other side and perform the skull diver quickly you will “crossup” your opp. IF THE OPP. is in hit stun, recovery animation, or invincibilty frames (this will require more experiments) the headstomp will float over the opp. Further investigaion of the previous sentence leads to the following generalization/theory:
If you cancel any P normal into the headstomp the direction reverts to the direction (for the first part ex. charge dn, up + tw + P) of the devil reverse even thought you input the headstomp command (charge dn, up + tw + K)!! I would like some confirmations on this; it’s hard to test by yourself.
I’d say it’s something to just be avoided since many ppl would punish a whiffed fierce psycho crusher. If you use any psycho crushers I would reccomend the jab version since it has 3 (as compared to 1 for the fierce psycho crusher) and use it sparingly. The game does pick a random winner like you said. There’s no sort of frame advantage/dis-advantage so it really doesn’t matter.
vs Dhalsim: Constant, well placed drills, that lead to slides and more drill mayhem. And in the corner, infinite yoga flames = gg?? I cant jump out cause he recovers right in time to do another one when im in block stun
vs Zangief : His Body jump attack (with down fierce) countering my attempts to get out of there, my jumping medium punch, psycho crusher, down fierce and standing fierce as an anti-air? Cause if i block that shit, SPD
Try s.Strong/s.Fierce against drill>slide attack (if your not in the corner then time a short Knee Press to hit as the drill attack lands or use head stomp/devil reverse). As for a counter slide attack I recommend jab psycho crusher (since it has more hitting frames than the slide and lifts you from the ground with slight invincibility). Yoga Flames in the corner can be stopped with a well timed s.Foward/rh.
Use a c.fierce to counter the body splash every time. note: dic’s c.fierce has nine frames of start up and six hitting frames so time it well. It works b/c of the hit box locations.
I was wondering why this situation happens and how I can prevent it.
I’m Dictator and the opponent is a projectile thrower. We’re between 1/2 screen and full screen apart. I am crouching, anticipating a fireball. They throw one, so I immediately do a headstomp as punishment. To my surprise, Bison just flies over them and lands behind them! Why am I not stomping?? Seems like a perfect time for a stomp to teach them that fireballs arent safe. no? I’ve tried this with the up and up/fwd stomps and both do this. What gives? thanks in advance.
Oh yeah another question… I was watching a YuuVega video, and he seems to like to crossup with short a lot. I was under the impression forward was the main crossup move and that rounhouse could also be used. I knew short crossed up, but when and why would I ever use it? Just to mixup stun length?
I’ve messed with this as well, and I’ve come up with two “possible” reasons. The headstomp has 30 frames of start up if it takes more than 30 frames for you to counter the fireball it won’t hit [unless you use the appropriate distance short, foward, or RH i.e. depending on the distance between you and your opp.]; However, if you time it as a REVERSAL it hits 100% of the time (from testing w/AE and it obviously says reversal in screen). An alternate method is to use the DevilReverse +UpTwd +Jab and then Jab to do a quick DevilReverse although this requires a fair amount of timing in itself and rarley hits (b/c it’s hard to hit the opp. b/f there back in neutral). Another possibility is that since the headstomp immediately hits (where as the DevilReverse hits only after putting in another command) the cpu might not be able to distinguish between the fireball and the opp.
YBH: pg. 171 explains part of your question. For the j.Fd, j. RH the time at which you hit the button determines whether or not it will cross up. This has to do with the hitting frames and hit boxes. Short has the shortest amt. of startup frames 2, as compared to 3, and 5 respectively for fwd and rh. Plus the short will always hit as a crossup depending on distancing over opp. The downside to the short crossup is the hit box is smaller than the fwd and rh are. Since you use a crossup to combo I don’t see why mixing up stun length would have any usefulness.
If any of this is wrong or confusing please let me know.:wgrin:
I always do the head stomp that way : charge 1, 7+kick. I never have problems with punishing fireballs with that. I think that if you use the 8 or 9 direction to do the headstomp, Dic goes farther (it’s also the case with the devil reverse.
As for the crossup question, I almost never see top Dic players use short. Most of the time they use mk, and sometimes hk. There really is no reason to use short, since its hitbox makes it a poor crossup compared to mk and hk, and you don’t even need it to mixup the direction the opponent must block.
Well what prompted my question was a video I saw of YuuVega where he used short more often than he didn’t. Though in other videos I’ve seen him in, he didn’t use it as much.
And here’s a new question(s): Any tips on the vs Chun Li matchup? She’s very difficult to get in on and it seems very uphill if she’s up in life. And I guess I should also ask about jab DP happy shotos (in partic. O ken). Because it doesn’t seem safe to try and punish a whiffed DP because the next one seems to pop me before I can get a standing forward out or whatever.
Can you please give me a link to that video ? I’d really like to see it.
Against chun li, remember that jumping short is a very good air counter against her. Punish her fireballs on reaction with the headstomp if she’s turtling at the other end of the screen. Pressure her with the usual Dic offensive tools and force her to make mistakes, like whiffing upkicks.
To punish dp’s, I almost always use st. rh. Against ryu who has a slower dp, you can try punishing him with a scissor kick.
The only thing I can say for the chun li match is: get full meter before she starts to flopkick you. Kneepress nightmare is the only way out of that bullshit.
Take it from me, I went 2 and out vs scrub chuns cause I didn’t charge up at evo east.
Besides that, your general air to air stuff is all good. Since her reversals aren’t that great, if you get corner it’s all over. (Whenever I had her cornered before she could flopkick me, I won the round) Mix up the tick throws with knee presses and do the mk/hk stuff, cmk meaty etc.
In hindsight, I should’ve counter charactered w/ Honda… oh well.
And howabout vs the O ken shit? Prof Jones suggested standing RH to punish whiffed DPs, but this was after I had just said a standing forward(faster than RH) was too slow. I’m talking about the JAB DP here. If I totally see the DP coming, I can gamble and kick him on the way down. But on reaction, O Ken is already DPing again by the time I press kick. And I’m not slow lol
I guess a general strategy for the ground game could suggest the best courses of action here. I usually like to dance around and charge down as much as possible(without being too obvious about it) to try and stomp a fireball or build meter and fly around with the devils reverse (which Ive been using much more/better… thanks ShinVega! ), but man a good O ken just seems to build a wall with the fireball traps and jab DPs. Maybe I was just out-matched by the last guy i faced in this matchup, but damn it was hard to get a move in edgewise.
So what’s the general approach vs a quick O Ken? I’m worried mainly about the nearly unpunishable jab DPs I can keep him out but I cant get in!
I personally have no problems punishing o ken’s jab dps with standing rh. Work on that and when your opponent will get punished for every whiffed dps he does he will start to use them more wisely. Against fireballs, if you are close enough use st rh, this will be a trade but in your favor. From afar use the headstomp, if you can’t jump straight up or simply block. Fireball cornertraps can be a pain in the ass for dic, so be patient and wait for the opportune moment to get out of them.
All Bison players know that jab Crusher beats Hondas headbutts and Blanka balls, but I’d like to know if you know of anything else it beats. I find myself never really using the Psycho Crusher unless I am pretty sure it will hit or trade, or if my opponent tries to jump over me with some bullshit and it hits from behind/bottom. Or in combos, obviously.
I’d like to know if you know any other good things to do with jab crusher/crushers in general. Usually if I am in crusher range I scissor.
Also: Anybody play OG Bison? The homing skull dive is fucking jokes!!! =))))
The key to punishing the Jab DP is that you have to train yourself to not be Blocking. You have to learn how to play Bison without Blocking. Seriously. If you are Blocking when he Jab DPs and whiffs, you will be stuck for a brief period and cannot punish the Jab DP.
Instead, learn to be in Neutral or, better yet, holding Towards on the joystick and pressing Jab to stop yourself from moving forward. When I play against Kens, I know that once he gets close enough for Jab DPs to be a threat, he cannot throw Fireballs anymore (Standing Roundhouse trades with Fireballs on reaction. See if he keeps throwing Fireballs. ^_^). Then, when he starts whiffing Jab DPs, you are already moving forward (or in Jab delay but that’s not a problem at all) and you are free to kick him. Pretty much as soon as you see him DP, just walk up and Kick. Don’t worry about getting him on the way down. Naturally, you’ll Kick AFTER he stops hitting because it is so fast. Just go up and kick it. Again, if you are at Defensive Crouch or Holding Back, you will go into Block animation, then come out, and you can’t move forward fast enough to punish him.
Standing Roundhouse MAKES Bison good against Ken. Bison is one of the only characters Ken can’t whiff Jab DPs on mindlessly because of it. Once Ken starts getting worried and backs off to start playing Fireball games from afar, NOW go to charging down/back for Headstomps. But when he moves in, you seriously should never be charging up for a Special move ever. And without the Knee Bash traps, Bison has a way better chance of beating O.Ken than N.Ken.
i came across this video [media=youtube]sKVjpAGnMTQ[/media] which explains when bison’s torpedo will cross up or not
which until i saw this video i thought was random.
edit please note that this is if Dic is player 1…if Dic is player 2 please reverse left corner for right corner and vice versa. thanks nohoho
when the opponent is in the left corner
Torpedo will not cross up but Scissor Kick will
But when they are on the Right corner: both Torpedo and Scissor kick will cross up
Ryu
Ken
Guile
Sim
Boxer
Claw
Bison
When these character are in the Left Corner: Torpedo will cross up but Scissor Kick won’t.
When these characters are in the Right Corner: both will cross up
Honda
Fei Long
Zangief
Sagat
When these characters are on the Left or Right Corners:
Torpedo will cross up but the Scissor Kicks won’t
Blanka
Dee Jay
When these Characters are in the Left corner:
torpedo will not cross up but Scissor Kicks will
When they are in the Right corner: neither will cross up.
Cammy
Chun Li
When he is in the left corner: Torpedo won’t cross up but Scissor Kicks will
When he is in the right corner: Torpedo will cross up but Scissor kicks won’t
Hawk
), but man a good O ken just seems to build a wall with the fireball traps and jab DPs. Maybe I was just out-matched by the last guy i faced in this matchup, but damn it was hard to get a move in edgewise.