holy shit guys… the random jump-ins… the constant buttons without an ounce of thought… it’s really time for me to play way more patient and punish idiots HARD… good god.
I haven’t used Bullhorn at all, is there any use for it other than EX beating fireballs?
cool vtrigger combos into super
I’ve been doing j.HP cHP xx bullhorn as corner stun combo since it launches opponent high and gives you more time to setup oki. I haven’t gotten into damage optimizations much but wanted to give some options. IF only banana crossup worked in corner…
good in dhalsim match, not much else tbh that ive seen.
What about bullhead? What is its primary use?
I use bullhorn for anti air, fireballs, and as an ender if I want to be closer an opponent.
For most, anti air is the toughest to use. To help get used to timing the button release, one thing you can do is when you have the opponent cornered, is run a throw/anti air game. Scare them with a revenger/killing head, then if you eye them jumping, release the button.
Especially for the Ryu/Ken matchups, being able to bullhorn through fireballs will help immensely in neutral situations. Especially for the Ryu matchup, there is a sweet spot distance that you want to be in. That distance is slightly outside of your st. mk range. From this range you can pass through projectiles with bullhorn, anti air with it, and be in range to stuff/counter poke/revenger.
Something to note too. Bullhorn xx v-trigger grants you a free banana/can set. Another situation is anytime you hit a cr. hp. You sacrifice damage but they have to wake up on the debris on quick rise/back roll. Keep in mind that if they block the debris can grab them instantly if you are near them due to the light blockstun. I believe that if they don’t quickrise and you set banana, I think it goes away as they get up, but everyone I’ve done this on has quick rised.
Seriously though j.mp CR.mp xx bullhorn xx vtrigger Bullhead xx critical art. its really easy to do and does massive damage. Also there’s a bunch of cool crush counter combos in the corner with bullhorn
EX moves or super, what do you guys think? I played pretty much all the betas and couple first days without using any EX moves, and just now started to force myself to use them just to see how they feel.
EX chain is only useful against fireball characters, and even against them it is not that essential. EX headbutt adds a little bit of damage to a combo. Is EX grab even worth using? EX jumping grab is funny but unreliable. EX bullhorn might be the best EX but I find it hard to use effectively. Holding meter for super just seems much more useful to me, really easy hit confirms to it, great damage and overall a good tool to threaten with.
yeah super feels too good to give up for the EXs. i’ve messed with the EXs too and they are real nice against fireballers, but i only really like using them to close out rounds
generally i would say during round 1 i build enough bar to super by the latter stages. so i like to play conservatively with meter. it also conditions your opponent to not expect yolo ex moves.
round 2 normally begins with full meter if i didn’t close out the first with super, so i will try to mix in 1or 2 midrange ex revengers and still have full bar by the end. Same with round 3. EX revenger is too fast to react to when used once the opponent is already under pressure. If you just throw it out during neutral footsies it’s react-able.
ex bullhorn is worth throwing out defensively to blow through telegraphed footsies but imo only if you have vtrigger so you can combo into jab bullhead. I think it’s unsafe on block right?
EX Bullhorn is an armored wakeup option. VT Activation off reversal is OK.
If you’re in VT, EX Bullhead is a wakeup option too, immediately armoured, and has a lot of armour too. 8 Frames startup according to Dantarions stuff, and very good for reacting to fireballs, if you want to do that.
EX Killing Head (HCB pp grounded command grab ) is throw invuln and has good range + good damage. Not any faster than normal versions though.
EX Bull Revenger (HCB kk jumping grab) is much faster than the others, but nothing special. Not fireball invuln. Fantastic for when they’re flinching, and good off a tick cancel like MP (ticks perfectly even on hit, unsure about counter hit)
EX Chain is best 1 bar damage off of most things, without VT. If you want to kill or do damage, it combos off MP/cr.MP, cr.HP, F+HP CC.
Saving for Super is also a good plan, if your defense is good enough I’d agree thats a good goal. But be prepared for people ready to just block.
I think Birdie has a good diverse meter plan. Super is so dangerous but so are some of his EX moves.
I was mucking around with VT Activations, seeing what’s safe. My method was to have Birdie vs Birdie in training mode, Dummy set to Stand and Guard ALL.
I input a move, they block, activate VT, immediately Pause. Set the Dummy to Jump (should jump 1st frame out of blockstun, Birdie/Birdie will use same prejump frames), unpause, hold up. You can also mash Options/Pause for a frame by frame (or close) view of the action.
All bullheads blocked xx VT = Safe but slightly minus. Decent pushback. Don’t push buttons.
Bullhorn/Ex Bullhorn blocked xx VT = Decent pushback, but unsafe by quite a bit. Don’t push buttons.
Light normals and Medium normals blocked xx VT = Unsafe, but some better than others. Not a great option.
Heavy normals (command normals cannot cancel) blocked xx vT = Slightly unsafe, HP good pushback but a fast long range punish (supers?) might punish.
Standing HK blocked xx VT = Safe and possibly +1/2. Push buttons!
(Very close) Standing HK hit xx VT = Can combo into Stand LP xx LP/MP/EX Bullhead and then into Super or use for tick Revenger.
I’ve found that I like to be in VT sooner rather than later. The walkspeed buff + high damage Birdie normals is amazing.
I think for Super vs EX, I guess it comes down to the style you want, or what you want to target in matchups or in certain situations.
An example would be say you are playing vs Ryu you are around 2/3rds to 3/4ths screen from each other. If he throws a fireball, there are some that would choose to EX revenger in reaction to the fireball. Not all would but some would.
Something though that should be considered now is looking for situations where Birdie can safely put out can/banana. Example would be you get a set after mk/hk chain. Last night, I was training with my friend who is a claw player, and one of the difficulties I find in that matchup is that if claw has EX and/or V-trigger you are very limited to when you can set. I found myself using chain a lot more in this matchup to set up can/banana. Also he is very hard to get him off of you when he is in barehand stance because he is hard to V-Reversal when pressure is applied correctly with him.
A similar matchup to this is Cammy. When she is in her pressure can be very troublesome in the same way Claw’s is. The difference though is that I find I can set can/banana vs her better than vs Claw, but it was harder to use chains vs her.
FYI, there’s a much easier way to set the Dummy to jump after a blocked move. In the training mode menu, go to “Record Guard Recovery Options”, pick an empty slot and begin recording. Just hold up during the countdown to get a reversal jump. Go back to the menu, go to “Set Guard Recovery Options”, go to the slot you just recorded in and turn it on. Then just set the Dummy to Guard All or Guard First Attack.
im having trouble canceling the stLp into Lp Bullhead
Any tips on getting the timing?
One way is to simply do it faster than you currently are. Alternatively, you can negative edge it: press and hold s.LP, QCF + release LP.
Shoutouts to @Issillian66 for making and testing setups as well.
Here are a couple I’ve found.
Ending combos with c.HP xx Bullhorn (Quick Rise)
dash forward, sHK
- This has around a 2 or 3 frame opening.
- It always Crush counters 3f normals.
- On block (being 0), you’re still close enough to do HP Killing Head command throw or all hitconfirm normals (sLK, sLP, cLK, cMP)
dash forward, cMP
- Hits very meaty on standing or crouching. +4 on hit and -1 on block.
- Can combo into cLK, sLK xx LP Bullhead or sLK, sLP xx LP Bullhead – around 205-213 dmg
sLP, Bullslider
- Beats 3f normals, and hits pretty deep. Not sure if it’s meaty or safer.
LK Bull Revenger
- Hits meaty I think. It definitely beats 3f normals.
Neutral Jump HP or jLP (depending how close you are when the combo started)
- It’s sometimes an excellent space to throw it out and is handier in some matchups than others. Some characters just can’t anti air jLP from a distance with any normal.
Ending combos with c.HP xx Bullhorn (Back Quick Rise)
dash forward, delayed sHK
- sHK will whiff if you do it too early.
sLP, Bullslider
- Beats 3f normals, and hits pretty deep. Not sure if it’s meaty or safer.
Ending combos with c.HP xx Bullhorn in V-Trigger (Quick Rise)
dash forward, delayed sHK
- sHK will whiff if you do it too early.
cMP, sHK
- This hits meaty and leaves u at around +7 on hit and +1 on block.
- Sadly it leaves u at max range when used midscreen, in the corner you can link into sMP though.
MK Bull Revenger
- Hits meaty I think. It definitely beats 3f normals.
Neutral Jump HP or jLP (spacing is farther than non-VT, it’s also a deeper jumpin)
- It’s sometimes an excellent space to throw it out and is handier in some matchups than others. Some characters just can’t anti air jLP from a distance with any normal.
Ending combos with c.HP xx Bullhorn in V-Trigger (Back Quick Rise)
dash forward, delay sHK a lot
- sHK will whiff if you do it too early.
dash forward, Overhead
- stuffs 3 frame normals, not a meaty.
dash forward, Bullslider
- stuffs 3 frame normals, not a meaty.
sLP, Bullcharge (only in corner)
- Hits very meaty (+6 on hit, -4 on block). Can combo into cMP.
Ending combos with c.HP xx HK Hanging Chain (Quick Rise)
Doing Vskill is not safe against the following characters after their quick rise, as far as I know:
- Ryu’s EX Hadoken (only vs Can), Super and VT HP/EX Hadoken
- Rashid’s Eagle Spike
- Karin’s HP Ressensha (Only vs Banana. The can will actually trip her and give you a combo)
- Nash’s V-Trigger, EX Sonic Boom (only vs Can) and HK/EX Moonsault (Only vs Can. The Banana will actually trip him when he does HK and give you a combo)
- M.Bison’s EX Headpress (only vs Banana and Can)
- Cammy’s EX Hooligan and Super
- Laura’s forward VSkill
- Vega: Forward dash + 6HP, V-Trigger, Super
- Necalli: Forward dash + Super, V-Skill, HP Disc Guidance
Vskill is barely safe against the following characters, so do it as fast as possible.
- Ryu’s Tatsumaki
- Ken’s Heavy Tatsumaki and EX Hadoken
- Karin’s HP Ressensha (only vs the Can and Donut)
- Nash’s EX Sonic boom (only vs Banana and Donut), HK/EX MoonSault (only vs Banana and Donut)
- M.Bison’s EX Headpress (only vs Donut)
- Dhalsim’s Teleport
Does this only work from point blank/from a cross up? Or can you do like a Jumping Hk from a fairly far range into the LP LK LP > LP Bullhead?
Also I just got a new stick and started playing on it, when doing that combo do you guys ride the gate? Or do you guys go to neutral after the jump in (for the LP LK LP part) then quarter circle LP bullhead? I made it a habit to hold back whenever I do combos for example: Jump HK, while holding back I hit LK LP then I ride the gate and make a half circle forward LP bullhead. Im just curious for what you stick users do. I use a square gate btw.
Thanks!
Appreciate the shout out, Angerus. Also sweet finds. I didn’t realize Cr.Hp xx Bullhorn actually sent them higher giving you more frame advantage.
Also thought it might be worth exploring Anti air crush counters or Back Dash crush counters where it sends them spinning away. I know off of F+Hp and Hk crush counters on back dash you can Lk into Forward jump for a at least 8f safe jump, (haven’t tested it on anyone but Rashid yet.). Might allow for some better follow ups than doing the standard Lp or Mp headbutts that you would off the crush counter normally.
Some detailed information about the armor properties on Birdie’s moves that might not be common knowledge:
[list]
[] EX Bullhorn has armor on frames 1 - 20, making it a decent reversal. This is definitely something I need to incorporate into my game.
[] F+HP has armor on frames 3 - 15, meaning you can use it as a pseudo parry (Ryu’s parry has 3F start up) The move still has 25F start up, so it’s quite slow.
[/list]