My definition of a grappler is a character with two or more command grabs that is unblockable. So Mika, Zangief and Hugo are grapplers.Birdie can be put here. BecUse he has two unblockable grabs.
My definition of Hybrid grappler is at least one command grab that is unblockable and one strike grab that can be blocked. So Laura, Birdie and Able.
Not sure where to categorize T Hawk
Having grabs doesn’t make you a grappler. Grapplers are characters whose whole game is based around the grab or the threat of the grab. Saying you need X amount of grabs doesn’t make any sense; you can have a great grappler who only has one grab, or character with multiple grabs that isn’t a grappler (like Birdie). If your definition of “grappler” can’t account for T Hawk, your definition is wrong.
Birdie’s game does not revolve around grabs. His grabs are incidental tools that you use when the time is right, but they shouldn’t dictate your gameplay. He can win without them and I think most of the time he’d rather be in footsie range than point-blank.
I would be content if he got no more changes on release. It’d be nice to get some of the many, many nerfs undone to make him more fun, or make him actually strong instead of just decent, but I feel like he is still viable as-is. In particular, I can’t believe they took out cr.HP xx LK Chain…it was a combo that actually let you make an interesting decision about where you want your opponent after your punish combo, instead of being forced to send them away with HK Chain like you are now. It’s no extra damage and involves extra thought mid-match so I think it’s totally fair. It’d also be nice to have a little more damage on some of his pokes; HP feels so pitiful at 90 damage for such a huge-looking attack, and I feel like a little more damage on his non-comboable cr.LP would be fair. But the developers seem to be scared shitless of anything doing any damage at all so I doubt that will happen.
So a blockable command grab is not a command grab?
Just so we’re all clear, this conversation of what is and isn’t a grappler is stupid.
Block and block some more until you can interfere with lk, lp xx lp bullhead or an ex-c.grab. Or just get them off you with a couple of cr. lp’s.
When they decide to jump learn your set-ups after his godlike cr.mp anti air.
I just try to keep them out with long range pokes, banana peels and neutral jump hk
St.hk crush counter > EX Bull Revenger = The single most satisfying shit in this game.
You can do the LK Chain Grab from a st.HK Crush Counter too. Does about the same damage.
forward dash -> heavy killing head; does about 30 damage more and works from nearly any distance.
But if you end it with LK Chain Grab you get better Oki. They land almost right next to Birdie.
I believe the proper terminology is a “hit grab”. Command grabs are generally unblockable, and normally cannot be combo’d into. While hit grabs are normally blockable, and can be combo’d into. Of course in this game there are some exceptions.
What can you do after a f-hp CC?
I didn’t have enough time to find out.
Excellent timing it seems. I made a video on some of Birdie’s counterhit options. Had to dig deep without s.HP being a CC anymore.
^ chain throw bullhorn Bullhead and i think you can do cr.hp into something
From midscreen:
Normal chain throws, bullhorn and c.HP don’t work midscreen, I forgot to test if EX chain throw works though.
In the corner he has a lot more options where he can do cr.HP and stuff.
The combos he can get off of f.HP are almost exactly the same as CC s.HP btw.
Yea depending on the situation and matchups you’ll need to switch it up. For example, you don’t want to let sim players go by doing killing head.
But to dive in a bit on the chain grab option, they do land closer to Birdie, but they’re not right next to him to the point they need to be terrified.
I had some footage left where I actually explored the options you could do from this and shows the distance.
http://i.imgur.com/O6PlHSd.gif
http://i.imgur.com/fEFBIk5.gif
You’re at around +20, so dashing up right after is actually punishable by DPs and fast normals.
The only normals that can hit the opponent from that distance are s.HP, bad charge and the slide afaik. Sadly, you can’t do s.HK or other normals, because it whiffs if the opponent jumps away or walks back.
Sadly, if the opponent jumps forward, they’ll jump over the banana (if you decide to throw it) and u’ll eat a full jumpin instead.
The distance you get from the chain grab is perfect for anti air Hanging chain however. It narrowly catches people who jump back or forward, so people never see it coming!
Killing Head is the other option where you push the opponent much farther for less pressure, the benefit you get for this however is that you get to build vskill and setup cans or bananas.
I’ve managed to lock people down with the can and finish things up with a stun, but stuff like that’s situational.
Btw a bit off-topic, but would it be better to put gifs in spoilers or is it okay to leave it like this if they’re not too large?
Yea my strategy was to annoy and troll the hell out of rushers with cr lp. 3-4 had enough push back for a range I was comfortable in then I
I think you are good man, gifs are really only a problem for people on mobile when you have tons of them slowing the page, what you just did is fine.
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Killing Head is the other option where you push the opponent much farther for less pressure, the benefit you get for this however is that you get to build vskill and setup cans or bananas.
I’ve managed to lock people down with the can and finish things up with a stun, but stuff like that’s situational.
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Sorry but what is the move “killing head”?
It’s his 5 frame hcb+p command throw. He headbutts the opponent a couple of times.
What were you folks using to keep folks in the corner? My first choice was anti air hanging chains, or back jump Hk. Nobody wanted to try and get out of pressure by walking up and challenging me with normals.
I had a few instances when they would instantly go into down back mode… easy mp or ex bull revenger. They would literally bail me out by trying to jump though.