"BEST BIPSON!" - Dictator Match-Ups

Classic Fighting Games Ultra Street Fighter IV
221

Also, it looks like IPlayWinner.com has posted their take on SSF4’s tiers, with Bison at #4. But a lot of these placements seem iffy, so … take this with more than a few grains of salt, IMO. http://iplaywinner.com/super-street-fighter-4-tiers/

Numbers in parenthesis are the Vanilla rankings.

Abel: 5.5 (6)
Adon: 6
Akuma: 5 (5)
Blanka: 6
Boxer: 5 (5)
C. Viper: 6 (6)
Cammy: 6 (5)
Chun: 4.5 (4)
Claw: 6 (6)
Cody: 5
Dan: 6 (7)
Deejay: 5.5
Dhalsim: 5 (5)
Dudley: 5
E. Honda: 4 (5)
El Fuerte: 6 (6)
Fei Long: 5 (5)
Gen: 5 (6)
Gouken: 5 (5)
Guile: 4 (3)
Guy: 5
Hakan: 5.5
Ibuki: 6
Juri: 6
Ken: 5 (5)
Makoto: 6
Rose: 5 (6)
Rufus: 6 (6)
Ryu: 5 (5)
Sagat: 5.5 (4)
Sakura: 6 (5)
Seth: 5.5 (5)
T. Hawk: 5.5
Zangief: 5 (5)

222

Damn you pretty much named it all as far as uses for PC!!! nice, but anyways about Abel, before he gets ultra just play him as you always would play him pressure him hard… ah shit this might be a little long but I can break it down pretty well for you I think.
Ok so generally at the beginning of a round Abel has very limited options compared to Bison so you can start pressure by walking forward almost immediately if they roll then just throw them, if they wheel kid block quickly and punish, most of the time they will walk or jump back(both good things). Bison can out poke and out footsie Abel fairly easily, his f+mk has 7 frame startup so its slow and his s.lk has bad recovery and relatively bad range compared to Bison’s normals( and if it trades well… its a lk who cares).
Before he has meter if you get a knockdown he has no good answers so pressure the fuck out of him until he gets meter. Once he has meter be careful about using combo’s that aren’t full blockstrings and don’t stand point blank on his wakeup. Instead stand just outside of his tornado throw range so it looks like he could land it if he throws it(they will probably burn some meter trying to grab you this way and it works for conditioning them to be scared to use it on wake up at all), and from this range you have solid SK pressure and can poke the crap out of him with your mk’s and s.hk(followed by SK’s :wink: ). When Abel goes on offense with no meter they will usually try to lp and lk the crap out of you to build meter, and sort of hit confirm fs.lk to f+mk(not a combo) into more pressure like c.mp to change of direction, fp to change of direction, command throw, more c.lks to s.lk to f+mk into more pressure. If you see them trying to hit comfirm fs.lk to f+mk for their offense you can back dash at that juction of the blockstring and punish the the whiffed f+mk. If you have meter you can EX SK without the backdash here and keep them scared to use this tactic when you have meter.
DON’T let them start crossing you up, because that is really in his favor as he can mixup between command lp tornado throw and COD pressure. If they have two bars they can keep pressure going for quit a while, just block and keep track of where they stop and try to mixup with their command throws so you can backdash they next time they try it and punish them as best you can. If they are finishing their CODs till the third hit of it(the throw part) you can backdash after the second hit of COD and punish their whiffed command grab at the end of the combo. Also the second hit is an overhead so standup when they start hitting you with it. Jumpins can cost you the game at the end so I advize you stay grounded when he has ultra(U1 for AAd jumpins and U2 for any jumpins at all). Crossups are a different story, if you see the opportunity if they aren’t in the corner(because thats where you want to keep them) take it, just keep in mind that j.mk doesn’t have enough blockstun to be a part of your blockstring so lookout for reversal EX tornado thows(and if he hits you with it then keep track and backdash or nj.hk immediately and land on his head!
I forgot to mention that he can link s.hp of c.lk(its a one frame link though) but has potential to deal huge damage off of a c.lk(c.lk>s.hp>COD>FADC>U1/FS), So you have to be careful when he is pressuring you not to let him tag you with too many c.lks because it could end up costing you the round.
Now for dealing with his U2… I found that once he has U2 do not let him get half screen(and if he does manage to set the game to half screen distance do not let go of your charge!) Because without charge there is almost nothing you can do to a well timed let go of the buttons(unless your reflexes are godlike), but with charge you can PC it on sight(if your point blank EX PC only) because PC has armor breaker. Generally though a good distance to stay at this point of the game is right at the where you can cross him up if you see him throw out Breathless, then he wasted his ultra and you can go back to your normal gameplan. At this distance you can still poke him very well and dash in for throws and bigger combo/blockstrings, and keep good SK pressure(but beware of loops when he has breathless cause it’ll get ya good unless they time it bad.) But point blank is generally a bad idea when they have U2 ready to go because its hard to react to at that range and if they have meter can hurt you with EX tornado throw. I hope this helps if not at least it kept me entertained for about 20 min or so…
I was playing RagingStormX (one of the better Abel’s from the Abel thread) and after I figured these distances out he had to switch back to U1 so he could juggle into it.

223

That list was made up on the fly and has no merit. Marn didn’t even give real input. They didn’t even really ask for more than like four people’s opinions. I think EC had the game earlier than WC, at least a lot of good players, and none of them asked them for any input. So yeah, make of it what you will. :stuck_out_tongue: And they didn’t even do C+, just skipped straight down to C and D, making those characters look worse than they should.

224

That list is definitely inaccurate because Rose is alot better then that.

The list does at least reflect the improved balance in the game, since I think the only 7-3 I see is T Hawk vs. Blanka. Though Sagat vs. Gief being only a 6-4 does reflect that this list is abit out of whack

225

Thanks Ryboy, that helps a lot.

226

Ken and Seth at the bottom of B tier??? LMFAO Hells no! Seth v Zangief at 6-4???
RUFUS AT NUMBER ONE?!?!?!?!

Sagat is still #1, Ryu is likely STILL 2nd or 3rd, akuma is the other, then Bison, then Cody

thats my top 5

btw I am LOVING honda matches now…nothing like sitting at the other side of the screen and taunting

227

Oh yeah… Ry… PARAGRAPHS, please.

228

Fuck Honda…I hate playing matches slow, and fuck tiers and lists.

229

I don’t know proper grammer anymore, I’ll try to make things more organized though when I post sorry…

Glad to be of assistance, dude.

also I added something that I forgot to mention so check it out.

230

Rufus is easily #1 in Super, but this argument could go on forever and better to discuss matchups.

And honestly for Honda matchups I prefer to rush him unless I have a very healthy life lead. Honda players are so used to having to turtle up that constant rushdown with heavy crossups confuses them. Granted this is mostly an online/not pro thing, but playing unexpected can throw alot of people for a loop. Lord knows how good players can still lose to flowcharts with how completely random they can seem.

231

Yeah Rufus’s Ultra II is just too good. And we thought PP was good.

On a side note. I think its much easier to Safe jump Fierce against viper now. Had about 30 matches last night where the viper could never hit me with her f.tk… good times; She should never have had it easy with our pressure.

232

ry, that’s a damn good analysis of the abel matchup, but i think it’d be more helpful to newcomers if it were less of an eye sore! maybe you could edit your post and just space out your post into smaller paragraphs? thanks, it was a nice read and gave me something to mull over regarding that matchup’s spacing.

how do you guys feel about the optimal spacings for the blanka matchup? i feel like i go into that matchup with like no plan which is why i lose so often. i lose more to friggin blanka and rose than rufus or sagat now, and i think it might just be because of my lack of matchup experience.

233

v. Blanka
Ok so I think I can give pretty solid layout of how to handle this matchup pretty well…
Lets start with the beginning of the of the round, Blanka has some options as to what he can do(he can light ball in to grab/electricity, hard ball to get some quick chip, command dash back to try to make you chase him, nj.hk and try to land on your head if you SK in, light electricity to try and stuff your SK/poke.) So depending on what the Blanka player does determines your best options for the next round, but for the first round of the first game there are two things that I find to be usefull for a beginning gameplan. Either take a small step back at the beginning of the round so if they try to light ball in and grab/electricity it will whiff and you can punish easy with c.lk/c.mk>SK/PC. Or they if they hard ball in and go for chip right off the start just use c.hk after the block(you might not get the punish but you get in his face and they will have no meter.) Once you get in Blanka’s face its your game all the way! So a good starting game plan after you start the round is to simply get the knockdown and pressure the shit outta them(hopefully before they get any meter), or just to even get point close to him to start some pressure.

Which brings me to the next two things about Blanka, First he has nothing he can do on wakeup besides EX upball(I’m pretty sure that regular upball will stuff any jumpin/crossups on his wake you try to do too.) So no crossups or jumpin’s on his wakeup, stay grounded(EX upball also beats crossup PC on wakeup.)!!! Second is on wakeup if you have them cornerd don’t be scared of EX upball because you can punish it for free in the corner with s.mk/c.mk or if you have charge c.mk>SK/PC combo. You can get point blank without worry, and as soon as they get up hit them with a big blockstring/combo. If they aren’t cornered you might want to be a little more careful of upballs because it will push them to far away to punish and chasing them down again can be a bitch(so just pay attention to how and whenthey like to use their upballs when you knock them down.) But reguardless IMO the best place to be if you score a knockdown is point blank, because of his lack of options on wakeup(unless he has ultra 1 metered and ready to go, in which case you should probably stay around max c.mk range to give you more time to react to it.)

If you notice they like to mash out electicity just bait like you would an SRK(except it recovers really fast so c.lk>SK is your best bet) and punish them on recovery, or maybe a better tactic is to just use solid blockstrings. Sometimes I will stand dash in like I’m gonna start a combo and wait til I see electricity and then c.mk>/HK/PC them. Also if you see them mashing out electicity there is a strong chance they will do it on wakeup in which case you can beat it clean with just about anything as long as you start hitting them immidiately on their wakeup(EASY DAMAGE!!)

If they are trying to command dash back and forth around you for shinanigans just mash c.lp, it should stuff it and give you a chance to a little none charge combo.

Alot of Blanka’s like to jump all day long all over the fucking place, they will cross you up none stop over and over if given the chance. If they start doing that just jump back out of their crossup with fp or hk and hold you charge in the air so if they jump at you again you can HS them.

Blanka’s electicity trap(I think its lp electicity over and over or mp electicity) its a good blockstring they can use for mixup, but its easy to tell if they stop for a grab(so just late tech). But just block it in general and backdash when you get the chance after the electricity.

Once you get the lead make them chase you(cause bet your ass thats what they would do.) All blocked balls can be punished with hk/EX SK or hp/EX PC if you have charge(hp PC is pretty strict timing though.) And all of the rainbow balls can be FA absorbed and then you can dash and punish them on recovery.

If you have them in the corner but are scared of ultra because of low life and know they are trying to get out with EX rainbow ball, a preemptive j.mp will beat it clean and give you a nice ultra juggle chance.

And if Blanka tries to sweep you close range you can punish on block it with c.lk>SK. On block I’m pretty sure his s.mk(double knee) is punishable with c.lk>SK(I’m only about 95% sure on this one though)

Last thing I can thing of is if you are low on life try not to let him get his charge and if he does his ultra’s can be extremely difficult to deal with, in fact I’m not sure what your options besides maybe DR for U2 and just jump back and try not to get hit for U1…lol

I don’t know if you can ultra his ultra with U2 yet but I know if you block his U1 its a free Nitemare Booster(U1).

234

Way too cluttered. Fixed

235

Ry, just hit enter again so you space them out better. :stuck_out_tongue: Don’t need to be an English major to do so! But good perspective on those match ups. Thanks again brah!

I’ll fix up the match ups a little bit better with air and ground game perspectives when I get more information drizzling in.

236

Now someone tell me my gameplan for the mirror match please!!!

237

Ultra of choice: PP

As far as he mirror goes whoever’s the first to get the knockdown and keep pressure wins IMO. I’ve never played an insanely good Bison tbh so I usually just wait for them to slide and punish. If they spam DR you can slide up and focus and it usually baits them toward you everytime while they are in the air. You should know your character better than anyone so remember that all slides, improperly spaced psychos, non lk. sk’s, and headstomps can always be punished with at least cr. lk xx lk sk. Swat him out of Stomp follow-up with a HK (It works 100% for me), and do so for any other jump-ins as well.

Once you have them on the ground, even if they have EX, Cr. lk is a safe meaty. I recently discovered PP punishes EX PC on block so use that if you have it when they try to escape your pressure. If cr. lk isn’t your ideal meaty, Bison is one of the easiest characters to safe jump and option select an ultra for in this game, just realize that EX PC/SK/Stomp will normally escape it, so use only when Bison has no EX.

Pressure him into the corner like you would anyone else and always ensure you are the one knocking down and this mirror is easy peasy. I personally love the Bison mirror because it’s actually the matchup I feel most confident in.

If Bison throws out a random PP, punish with PP, do it VERY late though, like when Bison is about to hit you with it. I’ve had situations where if you do it immediately the person who did it first actually gets the ultra damage.

If you have any other questions just ask.

238

I could put a little bit up on the Bison mirror. It’s a pretty simple concept because you play so much Bison the mistakes and exploitation of those moves make sense.

Instead of going to Battlefield today I was stuck with some work at home so I fired up the ranked/endless matches afterward and got like 90% Guile and Bison mirrors. I have to say, Guile match up is a lot lenient with the game changes. Kinda feel the match got a lot better for Bison, even though it’s the same b.s. Guile is throwing out, having a better time getting in with safe blocked EX-Psycho through sonic booms into c.LK c.LK c.LK xx LK Knee Press is pretty great for setting up okizeme. Guile still has poor cross up options except block.

I think Bison Guile is like 4-6 now. I really felt this match up was a clear cut 3-7 but if you want to be optimistic, it’s like 4.5-5.5. I’m gonna try to pick up a cheap capture card so I can upload the 50 or so Guile replays I saved for further analysis and have left in my battle log lol.

Basically, for the Guile match up, be patient and don’t rush in unless necessary.

239

I find that Cammy’s Cannon Spike dive kick is very very difficult to deal with. In particular the EX version. It combos into itself along with canceling into ultra. Any one know the frame data and how to deal with it?

240

hmmmm I do these things in the mirror match but ususally over pressure and eat like 2-3 EX PCs, which gives them back the life lead. Then I’m scared to jump at them when they have meter because i know when people jump at me when I have meter they eat EX PC/EX HS 98% of the time, So you can safe jump bison so he can’t has a hard time landing that? is it with j.hk? How do you know when you are spaced well enough for a s.mk to stuff their SKs? because half the time I stuff it and half the time I eat another c.lk>SK!! I need more experience in this someone who is solid play me some mirror matches please…

can I punish EX PC without ultra? can I punish hp PC without ultra? are there any good times to use focus dash to get in for a free throw, is it just not smart to do in this matchup?