still looking for any info anyone is willing to post about this team. Would be dope if clock came in and gave his 2 cents on the effectiveness with this team compared to ssd.
messed around with the team for a bit today. I just feel like ssd gives me more options but @ the same time, I know the team in underused so all of its potential isn’t displayed. arg?
I’m gonna go back to my original thoughts on this team, and that it feels somewhat like a “part santhrax, part clockw0rk” team. It’s up to you if you want the jack of all trades feel or not. As stated though, Strider/commando does have some advantages vs Storm/Commando. Teleport commando assists are sick, ouroboros is good to lock down against anyone whos running away, etc.
In the end though i think im just gonna keep the 2 teams seperate as they play so drastically differently and thats the fun of it, if one team gets boring or isn’t working i can switch to the other. Still this team definitely has potential, and hell maybe i can rotate between Clockw0rk, Santhrax, and This StriderSCC but yeah if clock came in that would be cool too.
My own take after having gone through about three or four arcade evenings with it is that I generally like the team, but that it requires a very different mindset for Strider than SSD does. I never really took to SSD at all, my Strider pretty much went downhill after Strider/Doom/Commando stopped being viable, so it might have been a bit less adjustment to me. OTOH, playing Strider/Sent/Commando makes my Strider/Doom/Commando more powerful too, because it forces me to play Strider less for chip damage and round out the rest of his game, which is a point where even Strider/Doom/Commando gets a lot more dangerous, too.
I still haven’t found a combo I like with either of these teams better than low short/fwd/rh/Commando/cat. It’s very like Magneto’s five fierce combo both in simplicity and damage without needing to use the meter, and it keeps the opposing character near the ground and sets up either orbs or more or less whatever else you want to do after you’ve done around 50% damage to them with no meter. It can be done very easily off of any orbs hit that lands, without letting them out of lockdown, and sometimes can be done while still leaving enough time for Sentinel (and sometimes even Doom) to be called afterwards before they get out of block stun, although Sentinel is generally the surer bet. If they block all the orbs you can do Doom or Sentinel at the end, and if they don’t you can just drop the hammer on them.
However, not having Doom potentially opens up a lot of other things. As I’d said already, Sentinel’s drones create a much better distance game for Strider than Doom does, which tends to leave him with more meter to work with, which in turn both lets him employ the orbs for real offense, as well as play with an assist kill and snapback game. Even if he doesn’t kill an assist outright, if he can manage to at least hurt it badly enough then his next orbs hit can be chained into snapping out in order to finish it off. I sometimes think that a lot of people give Magneto a lot more credit for his snapback game than he deserves, when any number of other characters could as easily do similar things if they just thought outside the box a little more. So far I’ve mainly used it as a desperation comeback tactic, but if this were done with a little set-up as a conscious plan instead of a spur-of-the-moment thing, Strider could wreck shop pretty badly on this if the opportunity presented itself, whether or not he managed to kill the assist outright straight up. If you can get a vulnerable assist character on point, even if you can’t actually kill them immediately, you can still wreck a team and the opponent’s mind set in the game at large by just throwing them out of their comfort zone and making them improvise. Most people are not very good at this at all, and it helps Magneto players everywhere. It’s probably at least as hard to escape from Strider as it is Magneto, and when people are spending all their mental energy (as well as their game resources like meter and/or life bars) just trying to get the right characters back on point instead of fighting their fight regularly, it has a way of snowballing quickly. I haven’t used this as much as I could, but I have managed to win one game against a guy playing Santhrax where Strider had managed to be stuck on his lonesome and I engineered a comeback just by first hurting Commando a bunch and then snapping him in later, which snowballed into ultimately killing all three characters by just not letting up from there and panicking the guy.
Strider-B is probably the best assist to use for this team, and Sentinel can get tremendous use out of it, either comboing into HSFs or launch into air combos depending on distance. It takes a little bit of mental work to not think of Strider’s assists as all useless and not worth risking him getting counter-called, but that one’s relatively safe as long as Sentinel follows up quickly. From a distance, laser/HSF is not a bad option select anyhow, so it turns out okay. Throw some judicious use of that together with the usual Commando stuff and Sentinel can be a beast as well as just doing conservative tactics to hold any leads Strider gives him.
All in all, I think Strider/Commando is good enough (and part of why Strider/Doom/Commando can work so well too) that he doesn’t need as much chip damage out of the second assist, and as has been said before, you need more than the trap to work well with Strider anyway. It takes getting used to, but I think it’s a sounder team than SSD in the end.
i think strider/sent/commando is much, much easier to use than sent/strider/doom. on a bad day id prolly do better with strider/sent/commando. but i feel on my best day, strider/sent/commando doesnt come anywhere close to sent/strider/doom.
Clockw***0***rk
Well, that’s basically the rub. If you’re not just spot-on in your traps and lockdowns and attacks with Strider, what do you do? Almost any Strider/Doom team is going to be more panic-inducingly awesome than Strider/Sent/Commando if Strider is just wrecking shop. However, if the first meaningful thing that happens after Strider goes on point is that he walks into a Storm/Sent DHC, I don’t know that any Strider/Doom team, with any third character, is going to save more than 2-5% of those games with the other two characters. Sent/Commando isn’t going to save all of them, but it’ll save a lot more than that.
Is that worth trading in half or a little more of Strider’s chip damage and a fair amount of his lockdown for some more close-range defense and quite a bit of extra no-meter combo power? I’m not completely sold that the answer is no, and these are the things I’m talking about when I say I think the team may be sounder than SSD. Yes, I’ll waffle more than a little on Clock’s say-so, and I’m not nearly a good enough Strider player that I think I’m in any position to tell him he’s wrong, but I don’t know if I’m completely sold that he’s right. That might just be my own conservative nature as a strategist (i.e. think of Plan B if Plan A just lays an egg) talking though. YMMV.
the thing about that strider/sent/capcom vs mag/im/psy video is that it’s so much of a mismatch that i don’t think it can be a valid example 
(edit - i was at school when i watched this and only watched the first vid, so ignore this^^^^^^^^^^)
i’d like to see this team against a thrax or scrub. it seems like an interesting team, and the idea of a non-meter hogging strider sounds intruiging.
oh yeah, you can do s.hp + commando xx hi teleport, lp, land, dash under for a quick reset. you can cross up or fake cross up.
strider can be a meter hog on this squad. It all depends on how you want to approach the fight as a player.
The combo you mentioned is the one I’m using right now for setups. I’ve been in the lab finkling with the team on and off. The combo can lead to some pretty good setups if you time it properly. After the teleport, j.lp, you can charge a bomb here and throw one out for a hi\lo game after you cancel into orbs. You can even do the qcf+lp, qcf+pp trick for 50\50 activations.
counter calling with mando can lead to pretty big life. Counter call, activate is decent damage. Right now, I got it to about 70% for the cost of one bar but I got some ideas to make it 100% off 1 bar. If you’re able to charge for the bomb, that should be a 100% but there are instances where thats not always an option but I still think there’s a 100% in there somewhere. Just gotta get it to reset right.
strider\mando, s.lp, s.mp, s.fp, call capcom, wait, bomb, activate, all on hit. Don’t throw rings, high teleport and get your mixup behind the bomb. Can be countered by storm float or characters who can fly I believe.
instant overhead during orbs kara-ed into j.lp, cancel gram is GREAT life. iirc, I was getting 30-40% on hit right off the bat.
as far as chip patterns are concerned, I’ve got it maxed out to about 20pts of chip. Where as s\d can get 35%+ depending on how doom chips. On an average rotation, I can get 10% with mando AA. Now that isn’t exactly life threatening to an extent. So imo, the core of striders orb game is going to rely on j.lk, tap lp, gram setups or rejump orbs
had a chance to play some seasoned veterans over the last few days and I ran this team quite often. I actually ran it more than my s\d version.
what I’ve learned:
as a 3 man team with strider on point, healthy sentinel after he’s built bar and enough meter to dump, the team is not flawed @ all to an extent. There’s so much space being controlled that its very hard to get next to strider if the strider player does things right. and if you got the team advantage, its practically game with proper spacing and meter management. The team itself really shines in a position where a counter call will lead to orbs, follow up. There’s huge damage right there that changes the momentum of the fight.
The weakest part about the team is utilizing strider\capcom to its max potential which I have no clue what that would look like. IMO, bar on this duo is used to create 50\50’s with mando on it for decent chunks of life. What other choice is there? can’t really chip all that well with mando. The basic instant overhead during orbs+mando, then air qcf+lk does solid life and is block safe. Depending on when in the orb meter you time this makes it so mando leaves the screen and you can still flood, teleport for a last option of your liking.
for guard breaks, I’ve been using the bird, teleport and follow up free into mando for great life. Even on hit, its still easily comboable with a dj.lk+mando.
and the all mighty question, what do you do when someone picks doom ron when you have this squad. It’ll snuff out mando if used properly which becomes quite a headache.
I think this team has quite a bit of team chemistry power over s\d but if you were to ask me if its the better strider team, I would tell you no right now. There has to be leaps and bounds done to strider\capcom before I could make a call on something like that.
I can’t help but look at this team from the standpoint of what it does to Strider. Strider+drones is nothing new, and anything that works with Strider+Commando on this team would also work with S/D/Commando. So where’s the change?
It seems to me that you offload a lot of Strider’s power in exchange for the utility and reliability of Sent+Commando. But if you’re going to do that, why not just use Scrub? If you start relying on fullscreen traps and only burn meter to regain control, is a Doom-less Strider that much different than Cable?
The change is that you have sentinel+cap instead of doom\cap. The better duo makes for better stability. The point of switching off doom is that sent\doom kind of sucks so you op for a stronger duo @ the risk of making strider weaker.
cable has no mobility and his AA as a point character is garbage. Strider has better assist damage, better zone, better follow ups on hit orbs, better AA in c.fp, better mobility tools with DJ and teleports… the list kind of goes on.
I’ve always felt that strider zones way better than cable. He has more shit to throw out there to stop multiple things from happening. Then there’s the huge fact that cable has no mobility tools what so ever which gets him killed quite often. Strider can DJ around the place and cause havoc if need be or teleport for repositions.
cable kind of gets nerfed out by mag\storm. He doesn’t like dealing with those rush down characters once they get around his helpers. His choice of AA in an srk is mad risky if they block it or dodge it. If you look @ the big 4 with strider\sent\cap, strider will counter mag\cable right off the bat and a patient bot with fight off sent\storm combinations. Where as ssd would have some matchup problems vs AA’s that counter doom IMO.
just my 2 cents on the team
Yeah, I get it. What I’m saying is, why even pick Strider at all for that team?
Cable assist is more useful than Strider assist (especially if your AAA is Commando, who has extremely low invincibility) in about a thousand ways; I don’t think I need to explain that.
Strider c.FP as anti-air is not nearly as reliable as you claim. The positioning at which it wins cleanly is quite limited; given the nature of playing Strider, trades are very bad and if you get hit cleanly, you probably just lost.
Do we really need to go into a detailed comparison of Strider vs. Cable in point effectiveness? We all know what Cable can do.
Strider is an extremely finicky character at his best, and weakening him by taking away Doom does not help. Sentinel with Cable+Commando assists is much better than Sentinel with Strider+Commando assists, and comparing the effectiveness of Strider with Doom to Cable with Commando (not necessarily against each other), it could go either way. Comparing Strider without Doom to Cable with Commando is not really close.
Here’s the thing: Strider without Doom loses a hell of a lot against Mag and Storm (it’s hard enough to keep them trapped with rocks). Furthermore, whereas Strider+Doom just decimates Sentinel+Commando, S/S/C takes that off of the table.
Finally, trying to trap Cable with orbs+tigers+drones is just a bad idea for many reasons, not the least of which are:
a) you spend a lot more time outside of orb-robot contact range in a non-neutral state (which means that the occasional bad ring placement frees you up to get shot)
b) neither rings nor tigers nor drones hit through assists, which means that if Cable does get an assist in front of him to shield, either Strider or Sentinel (or both) are going to lose a lot of life
Put rather simply, S/S/C seems like a Sentinel team (for Sentinel players) that just happens to have Strider on it, and in that case, there are better characters to plug in to Sentinel+Commando than Strider.
what made me crack up was after reading everything i looked at your signature and thought it was part of the text. Lol
Strider/Sent/CC relies on CC as your primary assist. This is similar to how spiral/cable/sent relies on Sent to be the primary assist.
strider/doom/cc relies on Doom as your primary assist and CC as your occasional anti-air/damage maker.
Strider’s main assist makes Strider play totally different, so I don’t think Strider/Doom/CC can be said to be the same as Strider/Sent/CC.
I also agree 1000% upon Shoutzula’s points of Strider’s mobility. Those DJ’s, smaller sprite size, quicker frame jab/short, his occasional slide d/f+ rh (esp. against those Sentinel that never liek to block low from mid screen), and even his qcf+rh/qcf+fierce in the air (to sail over proton cannon or ahvb, for instance) make game-breaking differences between Strider and Cable. I respect your opinions Spider-Dan, but I’m with Shoutzula on this one… you guys just have to make sure you’re playing Strider differently than with Strider/Doom.
And as usual, don’t make a mistake =)
You can only wonder what Strider would have been if he had something like launch into 50% combo or launch into infinite… That’s what I see as Strider’s biggest downfall: his ability to do quick damage. If you can ‘fix’ that hole with CC, Tron, or any other damaging assist, things get really interesting.
I don’t understand the point you’re trying to make.
Doom assist is primarily for orb chipping; all the Commando counterassist shenanigans work precisely the same for S/D/C as they do for S/S/C.
During orbs, S/S/C Strider’s only chipping assist is drones, and you’d be calling that just as frequently as S/D/C Strider would call Doom. Outside of orbs, S/S/C Strider is going to be calling drones even more frequently than S/D/C Strider would be calling Doom.
Let me set the abstract discussions of mobility aside and put this rather simply: Cable with Sentinel/Commando assist wins more matchups than Strider with Sentinel/Commando assist, so S/S/C is a straight downgrade from Scrub. Do I even need to compare S/S/C to Santhrax?
As I see it, S/S/C is neither a real Strider team nor a real Sentinel team; it’s just a bastardization of both that serves to dilute the entire reason for picking Strider (game-controlling lockdown).
Ultimately, Strider without orb trap just takes too much time and meter to deal damage, and his low health doesn’t help. It’s like if you took Spiral and gave her some sort of necessary and consistent meter drain, then made her take way more damage.
How’s it goin SpiderDan. I’ll bite on a few of your questions since I’ve had to use this team a couple of times on shitty James Games sticks.
Strider backed with Sent and Commando will give more fits to magneto and storm than a cable/sent/commando would. Strider/Sent/Commando isn’t supposed to be about lockdown. It’s a rushdown/mindgame based team. The only reason why you would need Doom is for lockdown/repeating orbs. And I really don’t find myself desperately needing to repeat against anyone outside of cable.
It comes down to this: Strider forces certain teams to call out assists more than anyone except for magneto. And that’s where countercalling comes into play. This works especially well against Mag/Psy teams. I guess it’s because I bred my strider fighting MSP without meter (by starting strider) so I’m used to using Strider/Sent/Commando. It totally shuts out any option they have. Here’s how the typical matchup I have against MSP looks when I use Strider/Sent/Commando:
Strider w Sent/Commando vs. Mag w Storm Psy:
whore animals and drones, Mag finds a way to get around eventually (after getting tagged by a couple) and gets close. I stay in a position that is easy to block anything he throws (like jumping back for instance), psy shows her face, I counter call commando. When I call commando, one of 3 things can happen:
So that’s one scenario. And keep in mind, that’s not counting all those times when Commando hits Magneto as he tries to come in without calling an assist. Come to think of it, I’d still like this matchup if you gave me any other anti air that allowed me the same options against magneto (ken, cammy, ryu, Jin, possibly cap am, etc). Or if I want, I can finish that matchup with Sent/Commando vs. Magneto which i can do as well. Now vs. Storm, having commando in this matchup totally changes the dynamic as you would have had with Doom as your anti air. Storm no longer has the trump assist which will beat out any other assist in the field. You do. 90% of most storms forget this and try to call psy when they see strider, hoping it’ll beat out whatever assist you call. That’s when you call commando, and repeat the above steps mentioned in the matchup vs. Magneto.
Furthermore, Commando also presents another dynamic for Strider that fucks storm up big time when she’s not backed with Sentinel: Anti Runaway. Activating orbs once here with Commando can potentially give you much more damage potential than you ever would with Doom. The second Storm run away from me when I activate orbs, I can start teleporting under her and calling commando. I’ve found this even more effective at times than Blackheart’s AA. In most cases, I can tag Storm up to two times with Commando during one round of orbs she is running away from. This can also allow me to force her into the corner which allows you to lockdown easily even without Doom.
As for your question as to why I’d pick this team over Strider/Doom/Commando, well, if Strider dies, I’d rather have Sent/Commando than Doom/Commando in almost any matchup except for maybe Blackheart and Spiral.
In essence, it comes down to this team having tools to put some massive hurt on people who look at it and think “oh, it’s just a Strider team that can’t lock me down” and proceed to fight it as if they were fighting Strider/Sent/Doom, which is asking to get fucked in the ass.
Hope this helps
There are trade offs of course. You can’t really chip but you gain overwhelming team chemistry and in some instances, its actually quite effective.
But here’s the thing: why would Storm feel a need to try to run away/escape from S/S/C orbs? The threat of being chipped down by orbs has no teeth behind it.
It just seems like most of the strategies of this team work best if your opponent continues to fear and respect a trap that no longer exists, and plays Strider as such. To wit:
I mean, that’s good for an occasional change-of-pace I guess, but that’s essentially just fishing for gimmick wins. If someone plays S/S/C like the team that it is (Sent/Commando, plus Doom-less Strider), the flaws become extremely apparent.
Anyone that has any experience fighting against Strider/Doom/Commando would use essentially the same strategies vs. a point Strider in S/S/C. S/S/C Strider is basically a weaker version of S/D/C Strider, and while S/D/C Strider definitely has advantages against MSP, it’s not a magic win button or anything.
Because of the chance that i may hit her with orbs which could lead into a combo or a reset. At this point in time, it’s instinctual for any storm player or anyone else to get out of there whenever strider activates orbs. I have yet to see any competent player just stand there and block when I activate orbs (with or without doom), unless I initiate a blockstun sequence beforehand
Gimmick wins? Maybe. But as long as those W’s keep coming in these certain matchups, I’m going to whore it:tup:
storm has to run. Instant overhead during obrs + mando, cancel gram is great life. Depending on what follow up you do can pretty much lead up to 50% life for 1 bar. Hit someone with that enough times and they’re running for the skies.
strider with sent\capcom behind him isn’t a chip character any more. He’s more of a zone character and if he activates orbs, he gets 50\50 mixup off blocked orbs.
Is there anything wrong with great zone game combined with a dominating super that can create safe 50\50 attempts for solid life? Not to mention that if the 50\50 is blocked, strider can still zone out with the last bit and gain a scenario advantage.
Once the zone is established, the opponent will eventually call their assist and thats when the counter call aspect of it comes into the picture. So you can still force scenarios as you would with s\d but the scenarios you want to force are much different.
I’m not saying that this squad is better than ssd. It still has to be proven and the fact that strider\mando isn’t exactly a power duo can make for some debate. Oh yea, to my knowledge, strider\mando has no guaranteed retrap chains so the duo is forced to use 1 bar @ a time which can cause some havoc for strider.
Pro’s and con’s all over the place.
imo, it basically boils down to free life in chip or proper team chemistry with ssc. I’m even willing to say that ssd is still much more effective than the ssc version.
the thing about strider/doom/cap is obviously it lacks drones (which IMO are just as important as rocks to strider). doom adds damage to strider’s game, drones better strider’s overall game, etc.
as for orbs, since doom is out, you’re not activating orbs to trap, but rather to pressure and let him do his hi/lo game, which is even buffer with capcom assist.
i don’t really get what you’re trying to say though - SSD is a better strider team than SScap? i don’t think anyone is trying to argue that though.
this. as far as a TEAM, ssc is better. the only thing is that strider just has better damage with the chip, so he needs doom and doesn’t necessarily need capcom, putting SSD over SScap by default.
if anything, the only reason to put SScap over SSD is because of sent/cap.