"Becoming the strongest woman in the world!" Chun-li Match-up Thread

Classic Fighting Games Ultra Street Fighter IV
81

I need serious help with the Seth matchup. I was playing against a good Seth last night and was just getting steamrolled.

Once he builds up momentum he’s hard to stop, I know that much. Some effective ways of stopping his momentum are df+LK when he wall-jumps toward you from far away, and jump back MK.

Also, there are some situations where I’d rather pick U2 against Seth, even though U1 will punish his Sonic Boom and his cr.HP. If Seth walljumps, the instant you see him walljump you U2 and I’m pretty sure it will hit. I haven’t tested this extensively, but it worked in my matches last night.

82

walnut shrimp and Jedoy,

A good Deejay use only one reversal on the ground : Reversal LK Double Sobat.

This move is unthrowable, has leg invincibility and consider airborn at the first frame.

What that means ?
You cannot throw him, you cannot meaty him with a low move so forget cr lk/mk/hk
And the “best” is if you hit him with an other move cr lp for example, he is reset because you hit him airborn so no combo?

83

I wish I knew how to beat runaway Seth.

Dash ultra his booms is good in theory, but my execution of that needs work. It could really turn the match around to land it.

Shizza says he mainly beats Seth with normals…

In training I have been able to whiff punish his neutral jump fierce wtih sweep, st. fierce, and roundhouse. Timing is tight, but unlike dhalsim, his limbs take much longer to retract.

Chun li’s air throw does 150 damage. That is a lot to Seth. Chun’s air throw also has more priority and speed than jump fierce, so it is quite useable air to air vs seth’s wall jump. I know air throw might seem slower than a rising fierce because to have to time it so that lk doesn’t come out, but I believe timed air throw is still faster than jump fierce. I was testing jump back air throw vs jump back fierce against ryu’s shallow jump hk (very hard to beat ground to air), and jump fierce was trading while air throw was winning.

I tend to get psychic vs Seth even though I hate being that way. A lot of seths abuse jump resets vs me, so I have started predicting those for a lot of damage by jump fiercing out of his block strings.

Edit: oh, seth shenanigan solution: when seth tries to do the sonic boom teleport crossup on your wakeup, focus absorb the fireball and hold focus then reactively dash away from him.

84

That explains why that DJ started using lk sobat on wakeup when I challenged him again. I would stick with cr. lk if he doesn’t have ultra. That way, you will not reset him, but you can still block lk sobat and punish him. I think he shouldn’t be spaced favorably if he does it that close? That way chun can combo into ex legs… if not she can always st. hp.

85

yes but the risk is to do an other cr lk and open your guard and be hit between the 2 cr lk.
So stay focus : Only one cr lk and you block.

86

Of course, there’s no need to lose focus for any reason. Cr. LK is completely safe if DJ does not have ultra. No fear. Besides, it is easy to confirm cr. lk into another cr. lk when you see the first one hit since you can cancel it at any time.

Once thing, cr. lk OS sweep is UNSAFE vs lk up kick. DJ will recover in time to punish lol

87

Akuma’s Demon Flip: As you all know, Akuma can do a safe demon slip palm from any untechable knockdown except his backthrow and this severely complicates Chun-Li’s escape routes. Let’s see if we can find more than one good way out.

Why is safe Demon Flip so bad for Chun?

If Akuma does Demon Flip Palm OS Demon/Sweep…

-If Chun EX SBK, Akuma will block and combo Chun-Li.
-If Chun EX Hasanshu, both will whiff and Akuma will combo Chun-Li.
-If Chun LK Hasanshu, Akuma will Demon Palm Chun-Li.
-If Chun Backdash, Akuma will Demon/Sweep Chun-Li.
-If Chun blocks low, Akuma will Demon Palm Chun-Li.
-If Chun holds up, Akuma will Demon Palm Chun-Li.
-If Chun Focuses, Akuma’s Demon Palm will break Chun-Li’s armor.
-If Chun blocks high, Akuma gets frame advantage from Demon Palm.

7/8 simple guesses lead to guaranteed damage to Chun-Li. Every guess leads to an advantage for Akuma.

First and foremost, Chun must respect Akuma’s multiple advantages from Demon Palm. If Chun-Li is good at blocking, she may escape damage from Akuma.

If Chun-Li respects his advantage from Demon Palm, Akuma has the option of Demon Flip Throw on his next knockdown. Chun-Li must guess whether he will Demon Throw while fearing Demon Palm. Her best option is to block, therefore Demon Flip TThrow becomes a good option for the fearful Chun.

Demon Throw:

-If Chun EX SBK, Akuma will get hit.
-If Chun EX Hasanshu, both will whiff and Akuma will combo Chun-Li.
-If Chun LK Hasanshu, Chun will damage Akuma.
-If Chun Backdash, Chun is safe.
-If Chun blocks low, Akuma will Demon Throw Chun-Li.
-If Chun holds up, Chun is safe.
-If Chun Focuses, Akuma will Demon Throw Chun-Li.
-If Chun blocks high, Akuma will Demon Throw.

If Akuma chooses to do this, Chun-Li has 4/8 options that will free her. Akuma has 4 options that lead to another knockdown. Akuma will choose this 50/50 option to beat a Chun-Li who chooses to block too much.

From this list, we see that Chun-Li’s worst options are the ones that lose to both Demon Palm AND Demon Throw: Block low, EX Hasanshu, Focus. Don’t do that.

Chun-Li’s best option is Block because it is 50/50 if your blocking is better than his offense.

Chun’s second best option is EX SBK, because it will beat Demon Palm if he makes a mistake, and it will beat Demon throw (which is the reason Akuma might choose Demon Kick).

Chun-Li’s third best option is jump away because it beats demon flip throw, but still loses to Demon Palm.

Her fourth best option is backdash if Akuma has no meter, because it also beats Demon Throw, but loses to Demon Palm OS sweep.

So how can Chun-Li think outside the box?

Solution 1: Block High OS Instant Overhead OS Block Low.

Input: :db: :l: :ub: :hk: :db:

Explanation: To do safe Demon Palm, Akuma must hit Chun-Li within 2 frames of her waking up. Time :l: so that you are blocking only during those two frames. Then, time :ub: :hk: to occur after you would have blocked Demon Palm. If your timing is correct, you will block if Akuma uses Demon Palm instead of jumping. In that case, block low and defend until you are safe.

If Akuma does Demon Throw, you will jump away and punish with Instant Overhead.

If Akuma does Demon Kick, you will be reset. Depending on his Demon Kick timing, if you choose not to attack you can get away from this without taking any damage.

Chun is knocked down… :db: :l: (block IF demon palm) :ub: (evade IF demon throw) :hk: (punish IF demon throw) :db: (continue blocking demon palm mixup IF Demon Palm)

88

That was a godlike post walnut. Have you tested that in training mode to make sure it’s legit?

If you come to WNF this wednesday you should watch me play against OnlineTony.

Seth can alter his wall jump trajectory with a dive kick so it’s not guaranteed to work everytime. It depends on spacing.

89

walnut shrimp: Genius post there. Great problem solving.

90

I tested it to the best of my ability. Akuma’s safe jump is actually fairly difficult to time, which is why I think a lot of them will still use kick if they get uncomfortable. But the better you get at timing the safe jump, most definitely the more perceptive you’ll be of your opponent’s ability.

After I was comfortable with the safe jump, I made a recording of the safe jump and made sure Akuma could block EX SBK and still sweep backdash. After that, I practiced the timing of the blocking pattern.

When I had the blocking pattern down, I recorded Akuma using Demon Throw. I made sure that Chun couldn’t mash out of the throw. It was tight enough to beat st. jab, focus backdash, and my attempts to do non-reversal lk hasanshu. I used the blocking pattern and Akuma was hit by instant overhead after he had landed. It’s really fun to practice lol

I feel demon flip kick is a variable and I don’t know the purpose for it except if he is doing a crossup set-up or if he mistimes his safe jump, so results may vary…

91

What if you jump straight up with fierce or dash forward?

92

Nice post walnut but there is a “BUT” :frowning:

In fact i thought about something a “little” similar too and i was stuck on something.

It’s a huge mistake and i made the same mistake too.
A very good player (Alioune) show me (explain me) than demon flip kick is the main attack from Akuma.
Palm and throw are here for the show :smiley: (Variable)

1 - demon flip kick lead to a combo

2 - demon flip kick BEAT a lot of reversal. The “beat” is important. I mean even Ryu, Sagat or Cammy cannot reversal versus that.
Fei long players choose U2 because that the only way to stop demon flip kick madness. Look Mago vs Eita for example in the last NSB

3 - Its hard to anti air this move, akuma position is near the perfection. No weaknesses in the hitboxes
Look : http://www.freelooser.net/frames/Akuma/special/daemon%20flip%20pied%20HK/frame%20(38).jpg

Now about your solution the first big trouble i have experimented is :

With this you hit Akuma on the ground. Here start the trouble.
If you are in the corner you are dead because he wait you on the ground
Even out of the corner he can punish you with an ultra if he has charge and reflex of course. I suspect a walk into sweep can reach you too or a stand hk. but often Akuma just walk and throw you xD (you can tech the throw though)

2nd trouble is :

There a little risk that the demon flip kick hit you on the ground when you open your guard to jump. Sometimes i just try to jump and the demon flip stuck me on the ground.
When you try to jump you are not instant airborn. There is a delay (4 frames)
And since demon flip = combo :sad:

3rd trouble is :
First i want to explain something i understand after looking several good players.
Eita was in France for a whole week in March.
Tokido was here during a whole week end in May
Infiltration was here in July again during a good week.

I don’t try to say “I know Akuma” but i feel like i can start to understand the patterns of good Akuma. And i play a lot versus my friend (Toshiya086) Sometimes i do something like 100 match or more in a night with him (i lose badly)

Demon flip palm is not safe like people think. I have seen my friend lose just because of that versus U2 from Claw.
[media=youtube]ZE2B3E7lgMg[/media]
0:45
2:27
3:07 He try to do his jump earlier and the palm whiffed and he ate a wake up throw
3:15

I saw Tokido eat several flying kick from our best fei long.
[media=youtube]GKD7vhoq6-Q]YouTube - [Stunfest X[/media]
[media=youtube]dA4pQodJbi0]YouTube - [Stunfest X[/media]

Look infiltration versus Ricky Ortiz, how many time he try a reset with demon flip palm after a tatsu and he ate every time a reversal Ex messiah kick however this move is “slow”.

In fact the timing is tricky.
Because of that a lot of Akuma don’t try to time a meaty palm anymore they do instead a fake palm which will never hit you. Like that that they land a little earlier and after that they do a srk. If you do nothing the srk come so it’s not an option select anymore but if you try a reversal the srk beat your reversal and if you jump or backdash the srk hit you

In fact this fake option select is risky for Akuma only if he cannot FADC his SRK if you choose to block and of course he loose 2 bar.
So now if you do your solution, you will jump because the palm is fake and after that you open your guard versus the blind srk :frowning:

Last trouble is link to the previous one.
Since Akuma players prefer time the palm earlier, they can add one thing it’s the crossup palm. It’s of course a fake palm but he land behind you.
If you try to jump back hk you miss him often because he is behind you or worst your jump became a jump forward hk and it’s not good at all

Yes very hard.

93

actually, Akuma’s divekick from the demon flip is more like a conditioning tool, because as it beats everything it makes you afraid to do anything, so he can use his more advanced options who are NOT for show, such as the palm or the throw. With the divekick he’s like saying “eat my mixup beotch!”

94

Wish I read Jedoys post earlier lol. I use to get bodied by my friends Honda~ tonight it was pretty even in a sense. I mean, he beat me, but the matches always came down to one last shot for either side.

I posted that I was having trouble with Rose doing Soul Spike then backdashing for free to zone me out~ tonight I was having some success punishing the backdash with a walk forward st.MP. ^^

95

what is that honda player exactly doing? shouldnt have that much trouble since you can pretty much zone the fuck out of him the entire fight.

Im having a bit of touble vs boxer. basically, there is a range where he jumps a kikoken and I far HP him, but it ends up trading most of the time and not in my favour =/. is there any other anti air to use here?

96

I too am having some trouble with this matchup as of late, though in response to your question, I’ve used c.hk from a farther range with quite a bit of success, or if you’re a little closer, fa dash up hazanshu can offer some variance to s.fierce. If you do manage to catch them with a hazanshu, follow up with c.lk ex legs ultra, or any other combo that you can follow up with.

97

Diveman, try waiting for him to land and mix him up or cross him up. Maybe you can trade with sweep in that situation.

c_nul made my brain hurt.

You are saying that most Akumas will dive kick because the safe jump is too hard to be reliable. There is a chance that dive kick will hit Chun before she can jump, but I will have to test exactly why that might happen.

If dive kick is his main attack, it would have to be a different timing than a demon palm safe jump to work, right? Because I would be OK to get hit by dive kick if I use EX SBK or jump, because I will be reset and have an easier guessing game to work with.

The fake demon palm into srk shouldn’t be a problem if he doesn’t cross up, since you will probably block that if you decide to block. The crossup is just going to have to be reacted to correctly, I guess.

I still think that if you are comfortable with the safe jump timing, you will be able to make more incisive decisions when you actually fall victim to the mixup.

98

He umps in from a distance where my standing fierce and strong trade (not in my favor obviously). He works slowly through my fireballs to get close, jumps in like I said earlier, or occasionally does a butt slam. The butt slam is hard to react too, since he uses it very sparingly and at times where he could more likely have chosen to poke or jump in. ^^;;

99

Are you talking about trip guard? You don’t need to type all of that, just say trip guard. Yeah, demon flip palm has it. Just not enough to eat reversals on some setups.

100

What do you think about neutral j.lk/mk versus Vega’s Flying Barcelona when Claw over you? It knock him very nice