"Becoming the strongest woman in the world!" Chun-li Match-up Thread

Nice Meeks :slight_smile:

Now onto the idea of yet another match up thread… It seems a decent Idea as long as Snake doesn’t go missing like the people that have started and maintained the last few. If I was also gonna make a suggestion I’d be tempted to make it like Dimes compendium and stick stuff in there like Magmans Chun thread write up (as that is still really useful for newer Chun’s and most will never have seen it) or all the other info threads. Would be nice to have EVERYTHING in one place…

My only other reservation is that it will turn into another thread full of questions and answers diluting even further the places people will discuss stuff making it even harder to keep a track of everything on here but I guess that is unavoidable…

I do think we do need a Chun “bible” though that contains everything all in one place, will be interested to see how you write the match up stuff up cos so far I think the information has always been delivered in a poor fashion. I’d split each match up into basic stuff for that match up (like how you approach it, zoning for it and spacing) then do a small section for each area within a match up, AA (based of spacing), OS’s, Punish options for the characters moves/attacks etc… Then an advanced write up that references other areas of the threads information…

That however is a lot of work… Also put Vid links in for each match up of Chun playing it well and OS’s etc… People can then see how the information listed is meant to be implemented in a fight :slight_smile:

Once its up and running I’ll PM you Match up stuff I have (for characters that may not get much love as I play against some VERY good players that use characters you really don’t see often)

Is there a way to make SnakeAes’ new thread unpostable?
That way all you’d have the ‘Chun Bible’ and no one can post stuff in it to clutter it up.
I know you can do this on the concept art/digital painting forums I get on. Just a thought.

You’d have to ask a moderator to lock it, so only the important info and/or relevant thread links are present.

Would I still be able to edit the thread if gets locked? If so, that might be a good idea.

Also, I am wondering if that U2 OS against Rog is viable for other characters, and for which characters if so. I imagine with a cast as large as SSF4 has (and even bigger with AE), there have to be SOME other characters that works against.

Putting that FAQ together is a lot more time-consuming than I expected it would be.

EDIT: I’ve pretty much got the whole thing put together now, but now I’m trying to revise all the matchup info so that it’s less wordy and more bullet-point ish, making the important info easier to sort through.

I imagine this OS will against Sagat as well since his reversals go under and crosses over to the other side. The flip side is that you’d be sacrificing an ultra (Hosenka) that’s more effective at punishing reckless tiger shots.

This OS however is also very useful against backdash heavy characters like Dudley, Viper and Rose (though the latter you should be choosing U1), but instead of the qcf, qcb motion, you’d do the qcf, qcf motion, since none of their reversals would go underneath Chun on a safe jump.

As an OS I don’t think U2 gets Roses backdash does it? I am pretty sure it doesn’t get Chuns so Roses will surely be the same

Sorry I made an assumption on those characters since they are typically heavy users of backdash, but I’ll hit the lab and test it.

Edit: Just tested, and the above OS does not work against Rufus. I have edited my previous post to reflect that.

Also, the OS against Chun and Rose is dependent on the timing of the safe jump. It’s not as lenient as other characters but they are definitely punishable on their backdash.

Viper’s MP Thunder Knuckle is -1 on block. Anyone know if it can be punished with Super?

Just tried it and I’ll say no. All strengths and ranges, with reversal timing. Think the pushback keeps mk super from hitting it.

Fought a couple of Yuns in AE here, and the last two pages definitely helped. Her normals (st mp, st mk, st hp) are truly your friends.

Anyone with intensive Evil Ryu/Oni Akuma experience? I kinda approached the latter like regular Akuma, but it appears his dive kick and some of his normals are brand new. Once you get over the graphics awe and see their damage/HP, it becomes an interesting fight.

What (new) things to I have to watch out for in Evil Ryu other than his stomp kick?

I’ll look for Cody tips in the older pages too. Looks like I can easily punich blocked slide kicks and blocked tornadoes no problem, but EX rocks seem to be a problem.

Whoops, posted too soon. Editing!

Evil Ryu observations
Note that this is just observations I’ve made or things I’ve read. Not all of them have been thoroughly tested.
[list][]E.Ryu is less zoning and spacing intensive than normal Ryu. He is more of an offensive character.
[
]FAST walk speed and big range on his dash.
[]Against Evil Ryu, you CANNOT Focus Attack his fireball if he does cr.MK xx Hado. If he hits you with cr.MK, something to do with both the range and hit/blockstun of the move prevent you from FA’ing the fireball. You’ll just stay in block stun if you try.
[
]This means, against E.Ryu, don’t FA after cr.MK. I used to do this almost instinctively against Ryu if he didn’t have a lot of meter (because I wouldn’t expect a Ryu to blow a meter on an EX Hado just to break my focus). But, his Axe Kick breaks Armor, always, so my habit of charging focus after seeing cr.MK got me slaughtered a few times in a hurry.
[]Evil Ryu’s f+MK is his sort of jump-kick type thing from the Alpha series. It goes over low attacks, but doesn’t count as an overhead. It leaves him at a disadvantage on block, but I’m not sure how much.
[
]Only the EX version of his Axe Kick hits overhead - the non EX versions you can block crouching. As a matter of habit though, I’d get used to standing at the end of blockstrings just to be safe.
[]His dive kick has slightly better frames on hit/block, it seems, than Akuma’s command dive kick (not the Demon Flip dive kick). It also looks like he can do it from slightly different heights than Akuma was able to, but that’s just what I’ve heard.
[
]E.Ryu has two target combos, but he can’t cancel them.
[]E.Ryu’s health and stun are similar to (if not the same as) Akuma’s. He dies quick, so if you get an opening, punish him hard.
[
]If you block his Ultra 1 (fireball Ultra) I don’t think you have time to Ultra 1 after blocking. I’m not sure though.
[]His Ultra 2 full animation is badass. Y’know, just FYI.
[
]Players with good execution can hit you with some seriously beefy combos: cl.HP xx MK Axe Kick > cr.MP xx LK Tatsu > HP Shoryu = ALL YOUR LIFE IS GONE. It actually takes off closer to 40%, but that’s still a really big chunk of damage that costs him no meter.
[]He still has his two-hit j.MP. It still juggles into Ultra.
[
]Axe Kick can be hit or thrown out of startup, even the EX version. If your opponent is always cancelling into it, this is good to know.
[]His Ultra 2 full animation is also badass. The more you know.
[
]Crossup Air Tatsu doesn’t allow E.Ryu to follow up with Sweep like Akuma can.
[]However, he CAN follow up with Sweep after LK Tatsu, but only against certain characters. I don’t believe he can do it against Chun.
[
]Sweep can still be punished with Ultra 1.
[]Ultra 1 can be charged and released, meaning it’s much less likely that E.Ryu will perform an Ultra Juggle too early.
[
]His teleport sucks. It is slow, has poor range, and, as far as I know, can’t be cancelled.[/list]

Oni observations
[list][]I have been playing Oni in my free time so I have better knowledge on the Oni matchup. Still, this is mostly observations as testing is hard when you’re playing against the CPU or against a live player who wants to win and isn’t looking to learn about the character.
[
]Oni has better health and stun than Akuma. I’d estimate 950 Health 950 Stun, which is still below average but much better than Akuma’s old health/stun rating.
[]Playstyle-wise, Oni is like the reverse version of Ryu/E.Ryu. Oni is more zoning intensive than Akuma (while E.Ryu is less zoning intensive). However, Oni is still an offensive powerhouse in the right hands.
[
]The EX and HK versions of Palm Slice (looks kind of like Gouken’s palm attack) cross up when performed with the right spacing. EX juggles, HK does not.
[]His Ground Pound move hits overhead, always, but it hits twice and I think only the first hit counts as overhead.
[
]The Ground Pound move is capable of catching you in the air if you try to jump back.
[]EX Palm Slice is a ridiculously good move to use as a damage reset during combos. Be careful of it.
[
]If he tries to meaty Ground Pound on your wakeup, backdash wins most of the time. I don’t know if EX SBK works because he hits straight down.
[]He has two target combos: f+LP > MP, and b+MP > HP. Both can be cancelled. b+MP > HP does ridiculous damage and stun, but HP whiffs if you’re crouching. f+LP > MP hits crouchers.
[
]I believe LP SRK can link off of LK Palm Slice (which means he can cancel into Ultra)
[]Oni CANNOT FADC his SRK if you block it - he can only FADC if it hits, and always only on the second hit. This means NO reversal SRK FADC throw setups.
[
]Oni’s air dash has really bad recovery. If he does it close to you, you can punish for free, and maybe even Dash Ultra if he tries to escape with it.
[]Palm Slice has fireball immunity but is not hit immune. Especially since the EX version takes so long to start up, sticking out even a poke would allow you to hit him out of it.
[
]His f+HP absorbs fireballs, but timing is weird. If he is using it a lot to nullify your fireballs, vary your timing and strength used.
[]His cr.HP is still a fantastic anti-air.
[
]Ultra 1 has an up version (QCFx2 + KKK) which makes jumping over him dangerous if he has Ultra stocked.
[]Be careful jumping also if he has Super. Air Demon is harsh.
[
]f+MK works as a kara throw. It has decent range but not great. Still one of the better kara throws in the game.
[]His Focus Attack on its own has pretty bad range. Kara Focus helps, but not by much.
[
]Oni has NO good escape options. His backdash is slow and has poor distance, he can’t FADC his uppercut on block, he has no teleport, and his air-dash has bad recovery (plus he has to get airborne first). Pressure Oni after knockdowns to keep him off his game.[/list]

didn’t someone already demonstrate that chun’s forward super comes out in 2 frames?

No clue. Some people insist that it can punish some, but not all, moves that are -1 on block. I haven’t tested.

SnakeAes
Mental notes taken on E. Ryu and Oni!
and you gave me another tip without even trying. I never thought of FA normal Ryu or Ken hadoukens from their combos.
next time I get cr.mk’ed I’ll FA down that fireball for sure.
but PSN has to go back on online first, lol. Been fighting the CPU just to stay in fighting form.

I do want to add though that in fighting the CPU I’ve been trying a few things out and had just a few notes on Adon that you and other may already be aware of but wanted to share:
any Adon’s non-ex Jaguar tooths get beat clean by st.mk as the EX verison seemed to trade. Though st. HP beat it out no problem.
his other move the ‘fang’? I guess? sort of his flip kick will get destoried by st. hp and or st. hk.

I know those are really just fundamental pointers but Anti Airs and such are things I’m really focusing on right now and seems like you can really take away two of Adon’s key tools pretty easily with Chun.

I have a few other pointers like that but in a nutshell any thing Fei Long does that makes him leave his feet - St. HP will take care of and with Rufus - St. MK is his worst enemy considering his aerial game is so key to his rushdown you can basically ruin him. Before the outage VCFan1001 had a hard time getting in on me due to this.

Again I know these aren’t ground breaking match up tips but I feel I’m best at the fundamental level right now, lol!

Any way of avoiding Zangief U2 other than just crouching (at least, I think that’s how others avoided it)? I just met some guys who used it to tag baited out pokes/reversals lol

Gief’s U2 only gets you if you are in the air.

It seems like Adon’s DP is wors in AE. I have been beating it with instant overhead. So… I dunno if he can punish it or not, but it gets out of grab situations and he can’t DP it. Maybe EX DP.

Yun’s DP hit me out of Cr. MK, so I don’t do it anymore. Meaty cr. Lp seems to do the trick, so os with cr. (lk + hk) or tic throw etc. Should give you pressure options.

I’m super turtley so I pick Hosenka against the twins, so they can’t neutralize my fireballs without taking a confirmed ultra. Lol. Yun can be juggled (but Yang fell out). You can probably confirm feint vs real palms by noticing them stomp the ground then punish with ultra… palms are very laggy. Both the twins can be punished with cl. hk > hk legs > mk legs > sweep. It’s easier and more damaging than cr. hp variation cuz my execution isn’t amazing enough to do loops. Ughhhh why do the twins have so much frame advantage. >_<

It must have caught wayward HSU’s or bad jumps then. :lol: I’ll keep that in mind.

I’m noticing that if the twins hit high enough with a dive kick, their frame advantage is really bad. If you block a dive kick that is really high, I think a throw is free.