Hey thanks is something I actually help you out with!
check out OHT’s battle report–sadly the only one he made–against Balrog, I pretty much follow what he says and have a good deal of success.
The video actually help me understand a few zoning principles as well. OHT where ever you are thanks for sharing your fundamentals and I hope you come back man!
YouTube - OneHandedTerror’s Channel
Repost on the M.Bison (Dictator) Matchup (for launchpad), with some added details:
If he starts zoning you on the ground with f.st.MK or f.st.HK, EX Hazanshu. The startup invulnerability will get you past his leg, and Bison has two options from there - block if he has time, or get hit. Do it enough and he should stop zoning you whenever you have meter.
For a meterless punish on his HK or MK, if you’re brave, do a quick Focus Absorb, then dash in and throw.
Be aware of his ambiguous looking crossups. Off of his backthrow, he has a very easy setup where he can jump from the same position and either will or will not cross up based on which button he presses (usually HP or LK/MK).
If his block strings aren’t tight, cr.MP after a blocked Scissor Kick, then cr.MP or Sweep after in case he pressed a button or tried to do something else.
Generally speaking, cr.MP goes under or beats most of his ground pokes. Cr.MK also works well in footsies.
Be careful about walking back if you are mid-screen distance, his Sweep/Slide is deceivingly fast. If you think you can bait it though, start walking back and then charge focus and backdash. If you do this right, you will backdash in time to block if he does Psycho Crusher, but also will backdash in time to Focus Absorb his Sweep or cause it to whiff. Worst case scenario, you backdashed for no reason and are now at a safe distance.
Never charge Focus up close - he has too many ways to punish you for it.
Chun’s Sweep beats his Devil’s Reverse and his Headstomp followup (Skull Diver) - but not Headstomp itself… however…
df+LK beats Headstomp, Devil’s Reverse, and Skull Diver. If you land this, you have like, 3 days to follow-up with Ultra 2. Otherwise, dash EX Legs since following up with dash into Headstomps generally won’t reach.
NOTE: If you are playing ARCADE EDITION, df+LK is a bad choice against Headstomp. It will trade - he does more damage, and you are out of range to follow-up with Ultra 2. If he did EX, he does a lot more damage, and he knocks you down.
There is an easy way to tell the difference between Headstomp and Devil’s Reverse if you are paying attention: Bison gains meter on execution for Headstomp (as soon as he leaves the ground), but if he did Devil’s Reverse, he won’t gain meter until performing the actual Devil’s Reverse in the air. If he does empty Devil’s Reverse, he won’t gain any meter at all. If you watch his meter (and if he doesn’t have Super), it will make it easier to tell when he does Headstomp versus Devil’s Reverse.
On his wakeup, utilize j.HP HCB+Taunt option select to punish him for teleporting.
On your wakeup, EX SBK is usually a bad idea as he has a lot of options for stuffing it. Blocking is almost always your best option. Second best is backdash.
In the air, if Bison only connects one j.MP instead of two (his air target combo), he can follow-up with a lot of moves on the ground. However, each of his followups is a reset. A lot of Bisons who do this like to cancel the followup into another move like Scissor or Psycho. You have an opportunity after the reset to EX SBK and it will beat whatever he cancelled into.
Airthrow beats Bison’s Ultra 2. If you miss on the airthrow, you still have time to punish him after he lands. In fact, in my opinion, any time you are both in a neutral state and he does Ultra 2, you should jump forward and airthrow. If you miss, you can still punish afterwards.
Be very careful about crossup Psycho Crusher, especially after a knockdown. The timing for it is weird, so if it seems like he did Psycho Crusher too early, block the other direction.
If Bison jumps in, something I have been trying lately is cr.HP xx MP Kikoken. The cr.HP brings Chun low enough to the ground so that she either anti-airs or ducks his jump-in, and if you hit him with it, you get the cancel into MP Kikoken (which is hard, if not impossible, to punish because of the amount of time it takes for Bison to get back onto the ground), if not, you’re almost even frame-wise (slight disadvantage on recovery from cr.HP). It’s a tool I started using against Adon’s Jaguar Tooth (off-the-wall dive kick) initially, and realized it had uses in other matchups as well, namely this one.
Bison has a pretty good forward dash. I have seen a lot of Bison players Focus Absorb absorb a poke, Dash Cancel and throw on your recovery. If you can hitconfirm Swedish Firecracker (st.MP xx EX Legs), definitely do that any time you are going to poke at him. Otherwise it’s going to be intuition, whether or not you think he’s going to Focus Attack. If you can’t do Swedish Firecracker at all, a modest substitute is using only st.MP to poke, and then following up with Jab or cl.st.HK xx EX Legs/Hazanshu if he dashes in. You might not always get it in time but it does work occasionally.
nice work! you da man.
Im not too sure what the match up is with Chun li vs Yang and Yun, i think i remember nemo saying that chun is good vs the twins but both dive kick hit boxes must surely beat out ST Fierce for anti air maybe neutral jump RH and i doubt any CR hit box shenanigans will work against jumps ins.
I want to know the score on Chun vs. Y/Y Twins as well. Many people with access to AE are now moving to the said characters. I was thinking it might be similar to vs. Rufus because of the dive kicks and rushdown, but the other things are different for sure.
I’ve been told by a mate who has a Japanese friend who goes back from time to time, and recently, the matchup is deemed to be clearly in Yun/Yang’s favour, with it bordering close to 3/7 against Yun. I myself find this matchup particularly retarded. His blockstrings consist of target combos which basically eliminates your ability to backdash, and his command throw disables your ability to rely on blocking, so basically, I’m reduced to playing a lame keep-out game against him, which is not entirely effective, since he has his dive kicks to close in, and his ridiculously safe ex lunge punch. Once he gets in, it’s a real uphill battle to even get back on even ground. Ohh, and lest we forget his ground target combo OS’s are pretty godlike.
If anyone can shed some light on how to approach this matchup, I am all ears.
I haven’t played anyone who is even close to competent with the Twins yet so I have no idea, but I would also love to learn more about the matchup if anyone has info.
how the hell do you guys play against gen? i just got owned 10 times in a row by a gen who didnt do a single combo apart from his dp, does not know how to cross up wall dive, does the stupid vertical wall dive on knockdown, randomly mashes his dp, and does not change stance throughout the match.
i have no idea how to anti-air him, or even to block his jump-ins. hell when i try to anti-air he just throws out his maximum gen thingy and i get my ass raped. i block one way and he ends on up the other side and i get cr.lked into super. or i try to cr.mk his jump in only to find he’s mashing punch and get counter hit trying to follow up. hell when i even guess his dp correctly he randomly does the kicks and my punish just whiffs completely.
Two things:
Personally, I like to zone Gen. I find that he has really poor options for zoning, poking and footsies. St.HP and st.MK work well as anti-airs, occasionally st.MP too.
Secondly (and more importantly):
If he was as bad as you say he was, why couldn’t you beat him after 10 games? Maybe you fall for the stupid shit one or two games, but after that you should be adapting. Like, if I try to poke anyone on wakeup and I start to realize they’re ALWAYS, WITHOUT FAIL going to DP me, then instead, I’m just going to block on their wakeup. Something a pro player (I think it was Ed Ma) said to me once was, “If I’m playing stupid and doing stupid shit, but you can’t beat it, what does that make you?”
Adaptation is the name of the game. If what you’re doing isn’t working, fix it until it does. Everything you’ve mentioned about this Gen player so far seems easily countered.
Sorry if that seems harsh. I don’t really mean for it to, but if you’re losing to dumb stuff, punish them for doing dumb stuff.
Finding this match to be really tough already, and even with mediocre Yun play. I keep trying to stuff his dive kicks but I’m failing at that, and yeah…command grab is a nightmare to deal with.
I dunno, I’ve found dive kicks pretty easy to anti-air with df+LK, even with the nerf. Especially since they have to do it from above a certain height, I think it’s easy to read. Take my statements with a huge grain of salt though because again I haven’t played anyone who is really proficient with Yun or Yang.
I think you just have to footsie them. You can’t really win up close or far away if they have meter as they both have answers for it, but I think right around mid-screen distance they don’t have answers for Chun.
Follow behind fireballs and st.HP if they negate with the Palm – there’s so much recovery I have been tempted to even try riskier things like baiting a Palm for them to negate a fireball and then Ultra 1 on their recovery.
Seems like Yun and Yang both are at a disadvantage after a blocked Dive Kick – I don’t know by how much, but I might start trying Reversal EX Legs just to see if it works. Also, st.MK seems like a good answer for dive kick pressure if you don’t have time for df+LK. I have traditionally tried st.HP because it’s habitually my go-to anti-air, but it seems to be about 50/50, although if they are far away it works pretty well.
I don’t know if this is useful info, but a lot of their moves can also be thrown on startup (I think even moves that are hit-immune aren’t always throw-immune).
For the Twins, a lot of their offense starts in the air, so if you can preempt and prevent that, I think it’d turn the matches in Chun’s favor.
The biggest problem, is that good Yuns and Yangs don’t just dive kick for the sake of it. The ones I play actually react and fish for pokes by doing a neutral jump first. If they see a whiffed poke, then they’ll close in. Also, the safety of their dive-kicks are dependent on how high it actually hits you. I find that anything from the waist down is actually pretty safe for the twins to follow up their blocked dive kicks with blockstrings. Anything above that puts them at either a frame disadvantage or even.
keeping mental notes on the twins good stuff guys, hopefully they’ll come to console someday.
Had an interesting scenario going today against a Ryu player, he wasn’t very good at all and did typical shoto tactics. Jumpy and a big dp masher (seriouisly how many wake-up dps are you going to do before you realise I’m blocking them and throwing you everytime?) but I threw a dumb kikouken that was unsafe but far enough away that I could recover as he jumped in with a HK. I neutral jumped up to tag him with my own HK I actually ended up hitting MK on my way up and anti-aired him.
I was like -huh- so I wanted to try it again. Like I said he was pretty jumpy so I just used him for anti-air practice and the NJ. MK worked again.
Is this a truly reliable anti-air?
I’m guessing because her hit box for the NJ.MK is above her head
I bring this up also to possibly try on dive-kicks.
thoughts?
Actually that brings up a point which I also failed to mention. Meeting the twins in the air is a virtual no-no. Because they can vary the angle at which they dive in, if they see you jumping, they can do a lk.dive kick which has the least angle and allows them to change the trajectory of their jump and land before you and anti-air you.
In essence, doing a NJ anti-air in reaction to their jump is just as risky.
no need to apologise. i think i was just raging really hard after the first two games or so. i realise now i started doing alot of stupid things. like mashing ex.legs during his block strings even though i got counter-hit 9 times out of 10. and not bothering to tech. didnt help i had a rather shitty day before.
whatta downer
I’ve been playing some more sessions with vcfan1001 and he’s been using rufus. I got to where I’m pretty good NJ HKing him.
I was hoping that would translate to the Twins as well.
unfortunatly it’s really hard for me to play right now–I hair line fractured my index finger, simple things like ex legs and double button stuff -throws, FAs are actually a pain in the arse and ultras are real tuff!
Versus Gen :
I don’t have a good strategy.
What i know is he have a stance to beat long range poke of chun li and his other stance is for close range offense.
Knowing to recognize them will help you a lot for guess his next actions.
In my opinion the stance for poke gameplay à la Chun Li is the stance where he has his 2 hand in front of him (Mantis). When he is crouch he have also his 2 hand front of him.
Why ?
Because in this stance he has a good cr mp, cr hp, cr hk. Don’t try to mess with this at far range 
He has also a good far lp, far mp, far, far lk and far HK. Specially the far HK !!
If he jump with this stance it’s for reach someone at far range also.
Now in my opinion his other stance (Crane) is for close range if you look his normals and jump.
About his specials move, his moves when he jump on the wall have a “long” recovery at the end.
If he whiff those move in front of you and you have your ultra 1 charged you should be able to punish him.
Any variations of of this move have at least 12 frames of recovery on the ground. Even if he do no kick
When he just cancel by nothing he has 16 frames of recovery on the ground.
He has also 4 way to jump on this wall ( LK, MK, HK and EX)
LK made him hit the wall at the lower height and HK is the hight height.
This has an impact on his choice.
Go in training mode to see how limited his choice are depend on your situations on the stage. Like that you will be ready to prepare a good punish and why not your ultra 1 ^^.
Oga (wall jump) follow by the far kick (when he travel the stage like adon jaguar tooth) is not safe on block. According to the frame data it’s -13 if he hit you with the first active frame.
Now (if i not wrong) if he hit you with the last active frame Gen is at… -7 on block so a reversal ultra 1 can deal with it.
Be careful, the blockstun of this move is very short so you will have to do your move really early to do a reversal
About his hundred hands, be aware that this move has a really fast startup and is safe on block most of the time. So don’t be surprise than a Gen use this move during your pressing. The HP version has 3 frame startup !!!
My advice his during your blockstring, if you let a blank, manage to use a low move at this moment.
Because a low move (cr mk) will beat any hundred hands since you will hit him low. It’s the vulnerability of this move at the beginning.
This advice works also in mirror match versus mashed ex legs.
About his DP and how to punish. I think you should just punish him while he is in the air with a close hk.
I know it’s look like a weak punish but it’s 100 damage and 200 stun and a reset situation for mixup.
On his wake up, his dp is not a good option (except the Ex version)
Why ?
LK version have 3 frame invincible, yes, but the move hit at the frame 5.
What that means ?
At the frame 4, he lose invulnerabilty before he can actually hit you.
MK version have 4 frame invincible but the move hit at the frame 7
So at the frame 5 and frame 6, Gen is FREE
Idem with the HK version.
The thing is to time your attack to have active frame when he lose invinciblity.
Going for a meaty is not an option. You have to delay your attack and use a move with a lot of active frame if possible
Training mode will help you. It’s not something that you can improvise during a match !!
Other thing about his DP !!
Only the LK and EX version will hit you if you are crouch.
MK and HK will just completely whiff versus any crouch move on wake up.
So my advice is : Work on a simple setup with cr lk option select sweep.
Time you cr lk to beat a reversal Gekiro lk (no meaty).
If he backdash you punish him.
If he use another version, he miss you
If he use Ex version you lose
PS : On his wake up, don’t forget his super. He can use them and because both of them are really fast don’t be too confident.
I found an option select that uses Ultra 2. j.FP xx qcfx2 all three punches(Ultra2) its risky but works well on opponents that like to back dash a lot on wake up. Let me know what you guys think.
It works on
Bison back Teleport
Dhalsim’s back Teleport
Vegas back flip
**Juri’s **Fuhajin(spin kick) (regular and EX)-you will cross her up.
Yeah that’s known, it works on a good part of the cast on their wake up, you can also option select it from cr.jab as SamsonK did on me last time we played… However it not get Chun’s backdash 
That’s for the cr.jab option select going to have to put that in my game as well.