I was in the lab working on the Chun-Adon matchup and found a few things. Nothing terribly new here, but some of it might be new if you haven’t been keeping up with the thread thus far:
Against Jaguar Tooth (the off-the-wall dive kick):
If he does a version that doesn’t hit you and whiffs, you have enough time to land Ultra 1.
If you do df+LK just as he comes off the wall, it wins. Unfortunately the only thing you can do after is U2 - dash EX Legs sometimes doesn’t reach, and sometimes only hits once which isn’t worth the meter.
If you do f.st.HK just as he touches the wall, you can tag him on the way down for a counter-hit (125 dmg, 250 stun)! If you do it late, you trade but he gets sent full-screen away, if you do it much later obviously it loses. This is probably a little hard to react to but I can see it being useful.
Cr.HP xx MP Kikoken (pseudo option-select) just as he comes off the wall. Timing for this is tough but if you land it, the cr.HP wins, is a reset, and nothing I tried with Adon was able to punish MP Kikoken, so as far as I know he’s forced to block, focus, or get hit.
I couldn’t do much other testing against Jaguar Kick and stuff as I didn’t have as much time as I would’ve liked, but I did find out that Chun has a 2nd active frame sweep setup against Adon:
cr.MK xx LK Legs > cr.LP > Sweep
Probably the easiest 2nd active frame combo I’ve found so far - I had no problems pulling this off consistently when usually I’m maybe 35% on most other sweep combos. Plus the combo looks DAMN sexy.
To be honest, it doesn’t really help because Viper players tend to try to walk you to the corner with feints when you stay fullscreen in the safe area. I’ve played against quite a few this week and the only way to bait them/get them to seismo is to briefly step into the area where they know it’s gonna make contact, or throw a kikoken or two.
The corner is not a good place to be charging with Ultra 1 vs Viper. But with Ultra 2 you can still be threatening even with your back to the corner and you can avoid the corner altogether because you don’t really have to worry about giving up your charge when you walk forward. I already told my main Viper playing friend about the punish before playing him and he just didn’t do a real seismo at all when I was holding backward with U1. :bluu:
The best you can get out of Ultra 1 from a Viper who’s playing lame and refuses to seismo when you have meter, imo, is the ability to throw a couple more fireballs. Moving forward with U1 is pretty much like fighting without the Ultra.
I’d rather have the freedom of mobility so that I don’t have to worry about surrendering my charge just to go on the offensive.
I see your point Darklight.
I’m starting wonder the point of a thread about matchup since we can see clearly now that people have several style with their character.
Last night i played several games versus HiroEmp, a dictator from USA. Though the connexion wasn’t very good, that was interesting and fun.
Did someone here know/play him ?
Right now i’m focus on Viper, i want to lose every bad habits i have
I ran into him a few nights ago on ranked. he cleaned my clock, didnt even do anything that intricate either, just really solid and consistent pressure. nice dictator in any case
So I really don’t see how Bison-Chun is 4-6 Chun. I honestly am beginning to think Bison is the best character in this game.
I mean, I don’t even know which normals are good in this matchup besides the usual s.strong. Or, I guess in this case which normals shouldn’t I be using in this matchup? Overall, I hate this matchup. Like I said, I don’t know what normals I should be using. Thanks in advance for the advice.
This dictator I was playing really abused his standing roundhouse, I checked frame data and now I know that your jab is faster than his standing roundhouse. I never played a bison abuse a standing roundhouse like that up until now.
Bisons standing Round House is the last of my worries when fighting the Bison I fight against, he just knows the match up really well and is an excellent all round player. I find that the Bison match up comes down to meter management and who get the life lead first…
In my case I never get the life lead first Honestly I’m having so many problems with the Bison I play its started to make me hate that match up a lot. Most Bison’s online just spam RH and do stupid unsafe scissors and headstomps, that stuff is easy to deal with, its the clever ones, the ones that use footsies and spacing to get the edge then sit back and turtle with good punishes… Its basically the Bison I play is just plain broken
In regards to the M.Bison (Dictator) Matchup… I have a lot of experience in this matchup because I’m good friends with Victheslik, who is regarded by many top players as the best Bison on the West Coast, and one of the best lesser-known players in the US.
If he starts zoning you with f.st.MK or f.st.HK, EX Hazanshu. The startup invulnerability will get you past his leg, and Bison has two options from there - block if he has time, or get hit. Do it enough and he should stop zoning you whenever you have meter.
For a meterless punish on his HK or MK, if you’re brave, do a quick Focus Absorb, then dash in and throw.
Be aware of his ambiguous looking crossups. Off of his backthrow, he has a very easy setup where he can jump from the same position and either will or will not cross up based on which button he presses (usually HP or LK/MK).
If his block strings aren’t tight, cr.MP after a blocked Scissor Kick, then cr.MP again in case he pressed a button.
Generally speaking, cr.MP goes under or beats most of his pokes.
Be careful about walking back if you are mid-screen distance, his Sweep/Slide is deceivingly fast. If you think you can bait it though, start walking back and then charge focus and backdash. If you do this right, you will backdash in time to block if he does Psycho Crusher, but also will backdash in time to Focus Absorb his Sweep or cause it to whiff. Worst case scenario, you backdashed for no reason and are now at a safe distance.
Never charge Focus up close.
Chun’s Sweep beats his Devil’s Reverse and his Headstomp followup (Skull Diver)… however…
df+LK beats Headstomp, Devil’s Reverse, and Skull Diver. If you land this, you have like, 3 days to follow-up with Ultra 2. Otherwise, dash EX Legs since dash Headstomps generally won’t reach.
On his wakeup, utilize j.HP HCB+Taunt option select to punish him for teleporting.
On your wakeup, EX SBK is almost always a bad idea as he has a lot of options for stuffing it. Blocking is almost always your best option. Second best is backdash.
In the air, if Bison only connects one j.MP instead of two (his air target combo), he can follow-up with a lot of moves on the ground. However, each of his followups is a reset. A lot of Bisons who do this like to cancel the followup into another move like Scissor or Psycho. You have an opportunity after the reset to EX SBK and it will beat whatever he cancelled into.
Airthrow beats Bison’s Ultra 2. If you miss on the airthrow, you still have time to punish him after he lands.
Be very careful about crossup Psycho Crusher, especially after a knockdown. The timing for it is weird, so if it seems like he did Psycho Crusher too early, block the other direction.
Thanks. I still have trouble with the Bison matchup even though the post I made is generally a pretty good breakdown (I think it is, at least). I have trouble internalizing all of that stuff and remembering to execute under pressure. Just gotta play more, I guess.
Right, if you get a knockdown just jump in on him as if you were trying to land air double-fierce on his wakeup, except for the last HP, do HCB+HP+HK. If you didn’t know already, what this does is it gives you another fierce if Bison just gets up and blocks (or is hit), but if he teleports your first fierce whiffs, you land and then get HK Hazanshu to punish his teleport.
Honestly I’m having so many problems with the Bison I play its started to make me hate that match up a lot. Most Bison’s online just spam RH and do stupid unsafe scissors and headstomps, that stuff is easy to deal with, its the clever ones, the ones that use footsies and spacing to get the edge then sit back and turtle with good punishes… Its basically the Bison I play is just plain broken