Well I think it’s very obvious that Balrog is top tier in HD Remix, but he is far from broken. He still has a lot of troubles with Gief, Sim, Honda, and Vega. He only has one 7-3 matchup (Fei Long). If you want to use that as being a “broken standard” if you will, then Sim is even more broken. He has two 7-3 matchups. Heck, Rog’s worst matchup is against Gief, which is the worst character in the game, according to tier lists… How can a character be broken if he consistently loses to the worst character in the game?
I wouldn’t necessarily even say that he is overpowered. If you think about it, LOOK HOW FUCKING BIG THE GUY IS. I mean, of course one of his punches should be stronger than someone like Ryu or Cammy. Balrog is jacked.
The thing with trading fireballs though is that Ryu/Ken whoever throws their arms outwards when they are throwing a fireball, which extends their hitbox as well.
Don’t take this the wrong way, Irrepressible, but how long have you been playing SFII? Have many different things have you tried? From what I can tell it seems like you’ve pointed out the same things for the past few months and haven’t made any changes to your game plan. If you have been experimenting, my bad. But if not I’ll try to point out some stuff you can try.
Try baiting the headbutt, then counter with reversal Flash Kick or cr. strong, Flash Kick. I ate a ton of those playing American Ninja/ShinobiMaster. Also, even though it has fast recovery, it has ludicrous amounts of start up. Headbutt it still good, but if Boxer doesn’t have Super, he’s one of the easiest characters to safe jump. Also, yes Headbutt goes through fireballs, but you can use that to your advantage. At full screen you can jab Sonic Boom walk behind it and backfist/throw Boxer if he tries to Headbutt through the Boom instead of float fierce. Just be careful to stay out of the Headbutt range.
I wouldn’t say so, but even so, just learn the spacing. You should know the game well enough that you don’t even need pictures of people on the screen. Try to abstract the game to remove weird graphical inconstancies out of the equation.
I’m pretty sure this is lag. A lot of players have stopped my grabbing shenanigans. I’m almost certain a well timed cr. jab should stop Boxer’s throw attempt and reversal Flash Kick should almost definitely beat it.
Know your spacing. Boxer’s far fierce can reach up to a just about half a screen away. Also, don’t wiff cr. forward like you would with other characters.
Know your spacing. Play more, gain experience. TAP shouldn’t be anymore misleading than any other attack even though he turns.
I have issues with good Rog players as well, the little things I have noticed that work for Guile are as follows:
CR.MK and CR.LK are great for stuffing dashes, Rog will eventually jump in, its about 50/50 that you will have charge at this point (I find anyways), block high, the transition to standing at this point is critical, if he goes for an immediate throw you can counter him easily at this point, more often then not though, they will try and combo to a dash (again, from what I have experienced).
Back Sobat stuffs a ton of Rogs shit, and lets you boom like a maniac, cr jab whiffs to bait a HB, new HK FK punish hurts. Use the Knee and step kick after booms to get out of corner situation. Rog has nothing against Guile jump in attacks if he has no charge, if he gets frustrated and starts walking in, jump in BnBs make him cry. Also, N jump frc is risky, but if hes low rushing in on you, you can treat it like Blanka slides and land that shit on his face, and BnB to push him out.
Its a hard match, I know, hes a beast, if he knocks you down its very, very hard to gain the ground back. Perservere, keep plugging away with it, Guile CAN handle him, I used to hate Blanka matches with a passion, now I can even catch much better Blanka players off guard with Guiles shenaniggans.
Keep the charge alive man, winning with Guile is the awesome, you’ll figure it out.
I don’t think Boxer is broken. As a Ken player, I have pretty good luck against him. His headbutts can be baited with fireballs. With Ken’s fast walking speed, I can walk up sweep/knee bash afterwords. Also, after kneebash, safe jumping is pretty easy to start another loop/mix-up/combo. Cross-up tatsus are hell for Boxer, too. They make him give up his charge and that makes the fight so much easier. And when I can corner Boxer (yes, I rush down Boxer) and pressure with fireballs, it’s usually game over. He really can’t jump over them at such a close range to Ken and headbutts (no matter the strength) can be baited and thrown. But seeing as how you’re a Guile player, maybe it’s just a bad match-up.
However, this is all thrown out the window when I play GeneiJin87. He just rapes me.
As a Blanka player I definitely have a “damn, this match is going to suck,” every time Boxer shows up. The match can be tough even against an average player, but in the hands of an excellent boxer player that knows all of Blanka’s tricks (Mr. x64, GeneiJin87), it can be a massacre.
The only move that I feel needs nerfing is the buffalo headbutt. I understand the need for boxer to have anti-air and fireball and I have no issue with that, but an invulnerable aa in an already powerful character? That is stretching it. There needs to be some blue in that hitbox.
At least in ST, I believe the headbutt is the move that causes the most trouble. That together with the ability to rush and use it afterward. It has a similar effect of the CE/HF tatsus, with the advantage that it is still invulnerable when it gets active and it can also go through very slow projectiles. The issue I see is that the move allows Rog to maintain pressure with ease, filling the gaps with a quite safe move that pretty much beats anything but doing nothing. That and the super, which has similar properties.
Boxer has a bunch of things that are strong, but SF2 is a great series specially because people seek to apply their strong strategies while avoiding the enemy’s. The buffalo headbutt is particularly the move that denies his enemies “their turn” to try and do something back.
I would be conservative with changes. At least for shotos and Guile, just having a worse headbutt would help a lot.
Edit: but there won’t be any changes, fuck what I’ve said!
Oh, he is definitely not broken. He is beatable, in fact almost every time he rushes or TAPs he risks getting knocked down. I suppose the reason of IrrepressibleGuile’s frustration is that often other characters outplay him but still lose. It a matter of… balance.
And 2nd of all I hate the term “broken” in fighting games.
Unless we are talking about actual hitboxes and priority, like with Akuma.
If you make a game where there’s no “brokenness” then there’s no fun, like with SF4.
SOMEONE has to be the High Tier character.
Gamers nowdays want everyone to be so god-damned even.
Look in the SSF4 forum.
There’s a thread for every character to make them better.
Back to the point,
I said everyone has their thing to make you say "damn…thats gay/cheap/cheesy"
or whatever term people are sayin.
Not one of his toughest, in my opinion it is Blanka’s Toughest Match, but I think if you go in with a game plan like others have mentioned he is beatable. Balrog is not a broken character, he is just a top tier character that’s how it goes when you are the one of the best if not the best character in the game.