wait what? no setups after knockdown, Balrog has 6 attacks that give UKD, I think Makoto and maybe Ibuki have the most @ 7 (and her fwd throw isn’t a UKD). Headbutt Shenanigans do stil exist, but nothing like super or AE. Personally I don’t think anyone has put in the time or effort to find new headbutt shenanigans for AE, I think they could be worse since the opp on knockdown doesn’t know if he’s recovered or not if he’s just standing there. (definitely not from cr.hk or dash low, for sure after Super/U1, fwd.throw, or bwd.throw.
I’ll make a list eventually, there are a lot of setups for safe jumps, meaty cr.lp, meaty cr.mk, or meaty throw. Jav1ts posted a 4f safe jump for smash in the corner if they tech the knockdown.
after 2 years of the game, this must be a very nooby question. But, whats so special about frame traps? Why use them? What can you achieve from it? Does it allow tick throws or break opponents tech attempts? Why should one use them?
from an article im not going to finish any time soon b/c the concept is still really new to me.
So for example, if you notice your opponent has an issue with mashing in your block-strings, you can introduce a gap that’ll allow you to block or, setup a CH so you can continue a much more damaging combo. For example, if you TAP, and a shoto blocks it, they can dp to beat an attempted throw, but if you do an ex.dash afterward, you can frametrap his dp and beat it out. Or for example, you go TAP to ex.hb, that’s an invincible frame trap with a crazy frame gap (14f), but if they press a button that doesn’t recover or low profile in time, it’ll get hit by the ex.hb.
In general, frame traps are just a method to keep your opponent honest.
cr jab walk up slightly cr jab is a good frame trap and sets up for throws. If you notice you’re having a hard time throwing people because they have your blockstring rhythm down, what I do is interrupt my blockstring walk up slightly jab and throw, that or throw another jab after. It’s just a good mind game.
And a personal favorite frame trap of mine is cr jab low forward as the frame trap and if it counterhits, roundhouse will combo, or otherwise if it’s not CH it will serve as another frame trap.
Of course these things I don’t really use as much online since there tends to be more dp happy people. But frame traps are a major part of balrog’s game imo.
Thanks for the explanation of frame traps guys. I guess I was using some of them without even knowing lol. But yeah, have been trying the walk jab thing after you mentioned it Salla, works great! lol.
The reason I came across this term was because of PR Rogs tutorials on youtube. So far all the ones you guys mentioned work. But PR Rog said e.g. c.mp xx medium dash Upper is better to use than other dashes because it causes a frame trap. That’s the only one that I haven’t got a hang of at the moment, keep trading hits. But real good to know. Stopped maining Balrog at sf4… finding it sooo hard to get use to him again. This technique is helping; so thanks again!
Does Balrog have a Kara-throw, and is he able to Kara-Dash Punch?
Is neutral jumping HP the most consistent and best way to get through fireballs up until close-mid range?
Can Balrog’s Dash Punches hit meaty during combos and from mid-screen? I once read there’s a clump of frames at the end such that it’s not really possible to change the frame advantage without actually hitting meaty on wake-up.
Hi all, have been lurking for a while and playing street fighter for about a year now, but just made an account because I have a couple of questions to ask which for one reason or another I haven’t found an answer to. I played Rose for most of last year but wanted to pick up a charge character and enjoyed the feel of Balrog, so have been using him for the last couple of months.
With the Dashing Overhead, I’m a bit unsure as to which version to use. From watching matches where inputs are available, it seems that the light version is the non-EX go-to move. However, I’ve been using the heavy version under the logic that if the opponent was crouching for the light version, they will probably still be crouching for the heavy version, and this has got me some success. Will good players be able to react to the heavy version where they might not be able to react to the light, because the differences between them look minute at close range. From memory there is something like 20 frames difference in start-up between the light and heavy versions, but it doesn’t look like that at all. What I’m saying is, I can’t imagine a situation where I could react to the light but not to the heavy. So why use light?
Also on the Dashing Overhead, I know that there are certain links that you must follow a successfully landed punch with (cr.lk, cr.mp, cr.hk). Is it a case of only that link will connect with that character, period, or is it just the easiest link to hit. In training it seems like all three will connect with most characters, so at the start I found myself attempting to use Overhead -> cr.mp -> FP.DS on all characters for the increased damage and stun. Is it impossible to do that, or just difficult? I.e. Do you have to use cr.mp on Guile, Guy, Blanka and Hakan, cr.hk on Adon, Balrog, El Fuerte, Gen, Sagat and Seth, and cr.lk on all others, or is it just the recommended move for each one? For example, I’m sure that both cr.lk and cr.mp work on Balrog in training, so why not use those links to headbutt if you have ultra stored?
Lastly, when fishing for counter-pokes with cr.mp just outside max range and cancelling into Dash Straight, should you use the light version or the heavy? In training the heavy version combos at max range but when outside max range (i.e. connecting with the opponent’s extended limb rather than the body) it seems a bit hit and miss because of its slower start-up.
I’m a pretty average player but I think I can shed some light on these questions. Anyone who posts afterwards, can go into more detail or correct me if I’m wrong.
As far as I know, Balrog does not have a kara throw or a kara dash punch. He does have EX-armour cancels for his dash punches. I’m not going to try explaining what that is, because there are much better explanations on this board. “Wiggle punch”, walk forward and blocking, FADC’ing are the only ways I know of combating fireball characters. As for meaty dash punches, I’m not sure, but I think TAP can be meaty as I have done it a few times I think.
When it comes to non-EX overhead, I tend to use the lp version because of its startup and most the Balrog replays I’ve seen tend to use lp as well I think. You could also weigh it up like this. LP overhead is 100 damage and HP overhead is 120 damage. Is it really worth risking getting countered for 20 extra damage? It’s like Rog’s hit confirm combo into headbutt. Even though HP headbutt damage got nerfed from 120 to 100, I still rather use headbutt as a combo ender (instead of a dash punch) because it leaves you in an awkward position afterwards, and the difference is only 20 damage. That’s how I see it, if someone wants to use frame data to justify a different reason then go ahead.
3nigmat1c has created a PDF in the matchup thread for overhead follow-ups. I think that will answer this question. Just go the the matchup thread and ctrl+F this "Character Specific Overhead follow ups"
I tend to use the lp or mp dash punch, because I think the hp version sometimes doesn’t connect on some characters and I too think it’s because of the longer startup.
You can do a lot of things to get around fireballs. If you’re close enough for nj.hp, you can probably lp.ds or cr.hk and hit the opp during their startup. There’s no reason to relinquish control of your character when you’re that close, especially in the corner, you can let them out. There’s no reason an opp should be throwing fireballs when you’re in range for nj.hp to hit if you have down/back-charge.
Yes dash punches can hit meaty during combos, but only in very special cases. For example, against blanka, cr.lp, cr.lp, cr.lk xx hp.ds will hit meaty enough to allow a cr.lp to link, check out Jav1ts thread about super tricks, i think it’s titled “new combo into headbutt against Blanka”. You can also hit meaty with dash straight as their recovering from stun (that counts as mid-combo lol). Otherwise no AFAIK.
The startup of OH really depends on where you are on the screen in relation to your opponent. if you’re not point-blank or cancelling from some normal, lp.ds comes out significantly faster while heavy will come out extremely slow. You’re logic is pretty sound (about light versus heavy when they can’t block light). I pretty much exclusively use lp and ex (for when they want to press buttons). like if I frame trap with cr.lp xx lp/ex.oh i’d never use heavy. This is easier to notice visually if you do it with a max distance cr.mp.
It’s character specific, check out my spreadsheet in the matchup thread, it’ll list the most efficient OH’s for each character as well as show which one gives the most damage. Usually it’s cr.mp xx hp.hb, sometimes OH, lp.hb will give you the most damage, but very seldom.
use the light version, at max distance, the startup is increased, lp.ds and ex.ds have the leanest curves, while hp.ds has a really steep curve. the curve refers to the changing startup depending on how close you are to the opponent. If you want me to explain further just lmk and i’ll search for a post I made about dash punch startup. Probably in my block string article. So yes, your idea is correct.
Hi guys, I have a question about Balrog’s aggressive game as a whole and would appreciate any input:
At the moment it feels like my attack patterns are fairly linear and rely far too much on getting a knock down and then jumping in. Against almost all characters I jump in with HK > option select a sweep > crouching jab > and from there go for counter hits with standing HK, standing MP, or crouching MK, go for a (presumably false) blockstring with another crouching jab > crouching medium punch > either overhead or dash low, or carry on the combo if the jump HK hit in the first place. Add throw in there as well. I feel like I have plenty of options in the scenario I just described, but it all hinges on that jumping HK at the start. Against quick uppercutters like Ryu I will always go for a few fake jump attacks at the beginning (normally with jump HP because it feels safer from shoryuken) and then punish the usual blocked uppercut. After a couple of times they tend to stop uppercutting and I can get away with the jump ins more, but I know they’re not safe so it’s clearly not a viable strategy against good players who can tell the difference between a safe jump and an unsafe one.
My worry is that if I can’t put my opponent in the position I want them to be in (blocking off a jump in) then my damage output will massively reduce. So my question is, what other methods should I be using to put my opponent in difficult situations where I’m the one with the options and they’re left worrying which option I’m going to pick? Is it even possible to get close enough for counter hit setups if you haven’t knocked them down first? Should you just be playing footsies until you can get a sweep, EX dash low, or other knock down move?
Against characters with good wakeup options, jumping in off a knock down starts to become useless. I typically use the opportunity of an un-techable knockdown to just walk their body into the corner. I like to maintain an aggressive distance where I’m just out of range of the fast cancelable pokes(eg. ryu’s low forward) and can counter a whiffed move, outright punish a blocked one, or blow through a slower/longer range poke on reaction with an ex. dash punch. Obviously for different matchups you will need to adjust your spacing considerably. Putting your opponent in the corner allows you to easily maintain this crucial distance, while keeping you in a range where you can punish any attempt to get out of the corner.
There are quite a few counterhit setups, but off a jump in(which most are) the main focus is blowing up a crouch tech. It’s really important to establish your tricky tick-throw game early in a match, so you can put yourself in situations later on where you know your opponent will press a button. Most of your counterhit setups will be off of a blocked jab. You can jab from almost max range, and then plink a cr. mk for a 3-frame trap. If it counterhits you can combo into sweep.
In general, if you aren’t able to jump in your damage output will be less. This is why it’s important to be able to hit confirm into a combo from a single jab to make sure you’re getting the most damage from any opportunity your opponent gives you.
Just remember, if you can safejump a character, do it every damn time.
Are dash overheads looked down upon and are they generally a bad strategy to rely on?
I don’t really use them unless I’m losing a match then I’ll do something like cr.jab cr.jab ex overhead to try to connect and get the combo/ultra combo. But I always get hate messages calling me a scrub and get called out for abusing overhead.
I guess because it’s online, it’s harder for them to react to, so it may be kinda unfair? I really don’t want to have to rely on it, and I see pro players like PR Balrog never using it and I’d like to cut back on it personally (as it can easily be blocked or thrown and all sorts of stuff).
So what’s the concensus on dash overhead? Use and abuse it or try to ditch it and rely on Rog’s other tools?
I say it’s a part of his toolset that should be used sparingly. A lot people will block high or grab on reaction to Boxer glowing yellow. If you mix it up by doing a LP DSB during a blockstring or even during a staredown, you might catch players offguard simply because LP DSB is so unsafe that people just don’t do it. If you have 2 bars, even better - you can make it safe if they try to reversal. Sure, it’s not the greatest utilization of 2 bars, but it’s something to be aware of.
i’ll agree with shiryu and say that, it’s a part of his toolset and you should use it. In general, OH is the only thing that makes them not want to always block low since balrog doesn’t have any instant OH or jump-ins to punish a character down+backing it. I will add that it’s probably better to use it at the beginning of the match and give them an opportunity to remember that you have it, so when you’ve been doing dash lows, or dash straights the whole match, when you do some blockstring into a reset, they block low or attempt to FA (for anything but torpedo and OH). Doing OH (even with 2 bars) at the end of the match when you’ve got full ultra stocked is really predictable, and in this case when the opponent has a long time to react to it (even online), it’s easier to counter since they’ll be looking for it.
Bottom line, abuse it when you have the health to take their biggest punish, so if you get in a hail mary situation you’ll have a greater chance of landing it, or can bait your opp since they are aware of the threat of OH.
I have trouble blocking an overhead if it’s used like this (cl.mp and cr. lp combo)
cl. mp, cr. lp xx LP overhead
I think it’s because it’s both mentally and visually deceiving haha. It’s a huge gimmick, but… a setup that you might find useful against someone who gets hit by meaties on wakeup.
For those who want to incorporate Cr.Mp in to balrogs combos say Cr.Lp , Cr.Lp , Cr.Mp Headbutt. or Cr.Lp Cr.Mp if you land a jumping attack at max range you need to train your self to do this. First of all make sure your plinking correctly once you get that you need to combo mp. You need to plink that Cr.Mp like its muscle memory make comboing Cr.Mp instinct!!! thats most important. You going to spend some time in traning doing that. As for me im going nothing but tranining untill the 13th to train up my balrog. Im not the best at any of this but if you need anyhelp ill try my best
