Balance in Fighting games

[LordxMugen]

Power Stone was pretty damn well balanced and it vanished real fast. And VF has almost no representation in the US, despite the fact that it’s probably one of the best balanced franchises ever.

Powerstone failed because everybody played EXACTLY THE SAME. it wasnt about balance so much as all the fighters were straight up boring. in comparison, MK: Shoalin Monk’s Vs mode (which played very much like Powerstone) had characters which actual different moves and abilities that played very differently from each other. of course that failed mostly cause nobody knew how good it was (after all, it was just an extra option).

[Hecatom]

MK shaolin monks was the only good mk that we had after 3 for a long time before mk9
mk:sm ftw

[RindoukanKarateMan]

MK shaolin monks was the only good mk that we had after 3 for a long time before mk9
mk:sm ftw

I liked MK shoalin monks but what does that have to do with game balance?

[RindoukanKarateMan]

I’ve said this before about Chun. Every time I watch new videos Shend puts up, I see like 2 Chuns but a fuckton of Maks. I wasn’t going by tiers. Of course she’s higher in tiers… that doesn’t mean people still play as her, and the people that did… I don’t see much anymore. I just see Boss dominating everybody.

Over-generalized it. I didn’t mean that you’ll see teams made of only them. It’s just that most teams that I see have at least one of them on it. It’s like seeing Sentinel all day in Marvel. That’s all you see.

I was talking about what I’m seeing in tournament play. Not necessarily about who won with who five years ago, and DEFINITELY not talking about tiers.

Boss and J dominate with Mak. because they’re good not because of her tier. Plus her playstyle is interesting. You gotta watch all TheShend’s videos there’s quite a few maks getting bodied.

[RidianFable]

Not a fan of players who were free money a 5 years ago, all of a sudden calling out newer players as scrubs and what not when talking about balance just because they recently had a bit of success at the new games. These same dudes were running K-Sagat, Blanka and A-Bison, Sakura. I know I’m ass but if you have happened to have “Gravitated” to the Top tiers since you started, balance shouldn’t be a discussion you are involved in. I would rather hear from student of the game types that have had consistent success at high levels with varying characters(Buktooth,Edma,Naps).

[J.Scogz]

Boss and J dominate with Mak. because they’re good not because of her tier. Plus her playstyle is interesting. You gotta watch all TheShend’s videos there’s quite a few maks getting bodied.

OK, again… did you not read what I wrote? I didn’t say she was top tier. I said there’s a lot of them in tournaments.

[RindoukanKarateMan]

OK, again… did you not read what I wrote? I didn’t say she was top tier. I said there’s a lot of them in tournaments.

lol I was just saying she was popular is all. Then again Im a bit biased. (see avatar and screen name LOL)

[Neverending_Manga]

I really think that people get a little too up in arms about the recent trend in patching console only fighting games like MvC3 and MK9; remember that with an arcade game in the past a new patch to fix things meant releasing and buying a whole new version of the board, and even games like 3S got patched (version A versus version B).

No other genre of competitive game has been expected to just ‘deal with it’ as fighting games have, even racing games with arcade roots receive balence patches all the time these days. I’ve also never seen people complain about developers adressing flagrant balence issues as much as fighting game players have. In old school Counter-strike they patched out bunny hopping because it allowed you to reach enemy spawns before a non-bunnyhopping player could leave the area on certain maps, despite that it was a common technique in tourney play at the time, because people complained that it was stupid and the game was becoming too much about hopping around like a tard with a shotgun, and less about actually developing the skills the game was intended to revolve around.

Balence patches are a good thing when they’re well targeted.

Quoted for awesome

I mean, this is essentially the same as the old argument that tiers don’t matter because “there’s no such thing as equal skill”. Even if that were true, why does that devalue tier lists?

I read the post your responding to as advocating an alternate method of devising tiers in a way that doesn’t need to take skill into account. It’s actually an interest idea to think about, not saying it’s right or wrong or anything.

Yeah, the guy already responded to your post but fuck it, death of the author.

Also, obligatory lol @ srk’s “I only care about gameplay” sentiment.

[J.Scogz]

lol I was just saying she was popular is all. Then again Im a bit biased. (see avatar and screen name LOL)

So was I… and you come at me like I’m attacking your precious little character.

[Ephidel]

Powerstone failed because everybody played EXACTLY THE SAME. it wasnt about balance so much as all the fighters were straight up boring. in comparison, MK: Shoalin Monk’s Vs mode (which played very much like Powerstone) had characters which actual different moves and abilities that played very differently from each other. of course that failed mostly cause nobody knew how good it was (after all, it was just an extra option).

To claim powerstone failed is an inaccurate statement. The game has its strong points, but the virtue always ended up to that whoever got the most transformations won. And, certain transformations were clearly in a league of their own (ayame cough) though none were merely the “same” as you would describe.

[r3cursi0n]

This is true. I played makoto in Super sf and she is arguably the worst character, BUT even if they didn’t buff her I still would have sucked it up and kept playing her without crying “balance patch”. People are ALREADY crying to patch BB and the twins in AE. Im starting to wonder if companies now cater to scrubs or people who don’t want to learn to play fighting games and be good at them.

Sadly yes it’s all about getting that dollar vs making a game that caters to the higher level player

[Hecatomb]

I love when people talk about equally skilled players, I dont think there ever will be equally skilled players since everyone’s play style is different

[RindoukanKarateMan]

So was I… and you come at me like I’m attacking your precious little character.

I was actually kind of agreeing with you.

[LordxMugen]

To claim powerstone failed is an inaccurate statement. The game has its strong points, but the virtue always ended up to that whoever got the most transformations won. And, certain transformations were clearly in a league of their own (ayame cough) though none were merely the “same” as you would describe.

im talking on a base level (punch, kicks, throw) people played EXACTLY the same with very little variation between different fighters outside of tranforms. i think if they added more moves and gave your characters more to do when they didnt hold a weapon (like in MK Shaolin Monks) the game would be WAAAY better.