Bad Habits for Guy players

huckles98 · 2012-08-17T21:41:45.000Z

I have a bad habit of going for bushin chain after every connecting elbow drop and getting punished hard.

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EMR · 2012-08-26T00:07:53.000Z

Got the idea for this from the Rose forum. So what are some bad habits you all have?

I know about not doing lp.shoulder after every TC from the beginner thread.

I have a problem with predictable run>slide, and trying to do crossup mk when my opponent is in the corner, doh!

You are welcome…more character specialists should do this kinda talk with their fellow peers. Im glad I sparked some interest… Respect to Guy players we gotta represent our mid tier characters to the fullest.

AhChang · 2012-08-30T12:03:45.000Z

Doing cr.hk everytime and spamming EX-Tatsu

Shigonkidd · 2012-08-30T12:11:58.000Z

wayy to much Cr. HK for me X_X
I usually space it out and try to make it safe but it just turns south for me in most cases ._.

atreyu25 · 2012-09-02T01:31:53.000Z

My bad habit is spamming EX-tatsu and when I put the pressure on but they are blocking correctly, i always resort to tc->run->HK. I still do it even though I know they know it’s coming.

x_Rock_Lee_x · 2012-09-18T19:52:55.000Z

EX Tatsu under pressure and cr.HK , and I know as I press it I am goin to get it hard, in games I don’t do this I always have a good chance of winning but I have blown many games doing these 2 things.

SeriousStu · 2012-09-21T20:30:17.000Z

Crouch teching too much and too early when under pressure and using TC x Run.Overhead too often (though I’m getting quite confident with connecting the cr.LK after it, which is why I use it a lot).
Also, 99% of the time I go for the n.jump safe jump setup after the Run.Slide knockdown.

Blooddrunk · 2012-09-22T09:31:04.000Z

Safe jump is never an issue, unless you mean you do it to characters with a slower wake up frame, or EX SPDs. Aside from that you really only have meaty normals to play around with, even though IROC has made a few points for meaty hozantos im not sure how useful they can be since they are negative on block, you also can go for F.MP mindgames, since throwing it out there after Runslide can replace whatever method you use for a meaty set up ( Dash x2~normal) Also there’s dash foward, walk a bit overhead, if you manage to hit on the very last frame you can do a cr lk after it plus since its plus relatively safe on hit and block you shouldn’t worry to much. Believe it was Dante that discovered the meaty Overhead or at least showed it on video.

Murdurus · 2012-09-23T10:16:11.000Z

I use cr. HK (slide) and j. d. MP (elbow) way too much. I feel like people who use focus a lot against those moves tends to blow Guy up a lot since he doesn’t really have too many options against it. I also don’t seem to know how to react to focus attacks either, I end up challenging them too much and eat crumples. I also don’t throw my opponent back into corners from the Bushin combo since I’m afraid that it’ll whiff the throw which does happen occasionally so I just go for sure damage instead. I also don’t option select so I’m free to backdashes .

nebbiez · 2012-09-24T16:13:30.000Z

I use cr. HK (slide) and j. d. MP (elbow) way too much. I feel like people who use focus a lot against those moves tends to blow Guy up a lot since he doesn’t really have too many options against it. I also don’t seem to know how to react to focus attacks either, I end up challenging them too much and eat crumples. I also don’t throw my opponent back into corners from the Bushin combo since I’m afraid that it’ll whiff the throw which does happen occasionally so I just go for sure damage instead. I also don’t option select so I’m free to backdashes .

Against most of the cast, after a jump in attack gets focus absorbed, you can back dash and go for EX hozanto punish. Exceptions to this are characters with far reaching focus attacks, or very fast ones. So that’s pretty much Seth, Zangief, Chun-Li, Hakan and maybe a few others. In general EX hozanto and MK tatsu should be your go to moves for dealing with focus attacks.

Blooddrunk · 2012-09-24T16:55:18.000Z

except elbow drop it hits at the top of their head, can’t backdash at that point due to recovery frames.

Murdurus · 2012-09-24T23:07:41.000Z

except elbow drop it hits at the top of their head, can’t backdash at that point due to recovery frames.

Yeah, I hate that so much. It definitely feels like that Elbow Drop tends to have a longer recovery than any other air move. Or maybe it’s because of less block stun? My guess is that it has longer recovery than normal jump attacks since it explains the focus attack scenario better. From what I have noticed, although not thoroughly tested, if I do a j. MK and they block and I throw, it whiffs because of block stun. But if I do Elbow Drop and they block, they can throw me while I’m still recovering.

@nebbiez: EX Hozanto does armor break but it’s not like you have unlimited meter so it’s not really a practical solution, not to mention it also punts your opponent across the screen kind of leaving you at where you started if not worse. MK Tatsu is a bit risky as well since it’s not invincible and unless you’re doing it at really close range against a Focus Attack (which usually doesn’t happen), they can backdash cancel and get a free punish on whiff. And on hit, you get the same problem with Hozanto, your opponent goes flying away.

I personally think that they should just make cr. HK two hit and it’ll solve that problem .

de_BLOO · 2012-09-24T23:14:37.000Z

The simple target combo into light hozanto allows the player to preemptively do MK tatsu to stuff any buttons they want to press.

I tend to try to guess that a little too much.

Blooddrunk · 2012-09-25T03:16:03.000Z

Yeah, I hate that so much. It definitely feels like that Elbow Drop tends to have a longer recovery than any other air move. Or maybe it’s because of less block stun? My guess is that it has longer recovery than normal jump attacks since it explains the focus attack scenario better. From what I have noticed, although not thoroughly tested, if I do a j. MK and they block and I throw, it whiffs because of block stun. But if I do Elbow Drop and they block, they can throw me while I’m still recovering.

@nebbiez: EX Hozanto does armor break but it’s not like you have unlimited meter so it’s not really a practical solution, not to mention it also punts your opponent across the screen kind of leaving you at where you started if not worse. MK Tatsu is a bit risky as well since it’s not invincible and unless you’re doing it at really close range against a Focus Attack (which usually doesn’t happen), they can backdash cancel and get a free punish on whiff. And on hit, you get the same problem with Hozanto, your opponent goes flying away.

I personally think that they should just make cr. HK two hit and it’ll solve that problem .

Has 8 frames of recovery, which is absurd, so safe jumping with it is a bad idea. Also for Focus Attacks I just do TC chances are they will either, release and I get a counter hit or they backdash and i won’t get punished. If its the start of there focus attack i just let ex hozanto fly, don’t really care on the pushing back since they will most likely be near the corner and Run/slide or run stop benefit the closing of distance.

nebbiez · 2012-09-25T03:19:02.000Z

Yeah, I hate that so much. It definitely feels like that Elbow Drop tends to have a longer recovery than any other air move. Or maybe it’s because of less block stun? My guess is that it has longer recovery than normal jump attacks since it explains the focus attack scenario better. From what I have noticed, although not thoroughly tested, if I do a j. MK and they block and I throw, it whiffs because of block stun. But if I do Elbow Drop and they block, they can throw me while I’m still recovering.

@nebbiez: EX Hozanto does armor break but it’s not like you have unlimited meter so it’s not really a practical solution, not to mention it also punts your opponent across the screen kind of leaving you at where you started if not worse. MK Tatsu is a bit risky as well since it’s not invincible and unless you’re doing it at really close range against a Focus Attack (which usually doesn’t happen), they can backdash cancel and get a free punish on whiff. And on hit, you get the same problem with Hozanto, your opponent goes flying away.

I personally think that they should just make cr. HK two hit and it’ll solve that problem .

You’d be surprised at the range of MK tatsu against most of the cast’s back dashes. It’s also great for catching fireballs at that same kinda distance, particularly Guiles and Deejays who think they can get free projectile chip at that range. While I can see the merits of Guy always keeping on your opponent, my particular play style is always to get their ass in the corner as soon as possible. Use LP/EX hozanto, MK/EX tatsu, whatever! If they get out of the corner, send them flying across the screen into the other corner or throw their ass back where they came from. That’s just how I play. I feel Guy’s too wishy-washy mid-screen against a lot of characters. But against everyone (except for maybe teleport characters) he is pretty damn godlike when he has you trapped in the corner. Once your opponent clocks on to your run slide -> neutral jump OS, Guy kinda runs out of options pretty quickly mid-screen as well. But I respect the difference of opinion!

Black-Toof · 2012-09-25T03:24:14.000Z

I play Gouken.
I find bad habits for Guys are to repeatedly continue trying stuff that I’m aware of.
If I parry your Elbow Drop repeatedly, stop doing it.

A lot of Guys, I find, tend to know a ‘Vortex’ and stick with it no matter what happens. Instead of adapting to a different one or mixing things up.

I find Guy similar to Ibuki to that respect.
If you find one, you instantly know they’re going to want to get into they’re Vortex, using that close knee normal > reverse kick special (Ending in a low for knockdown)

Blooddrunk · 2012-09-25T03:32:59.000Z

Crossing up Gouken is a risk, hell jumping at him is as well.

Murdurus · 2012-09-25T09:52:21.000Z

You’d be surprised at the range of MK tatsu against most of the cast’s back dashes. It’s also great for catching fireballs at that same kinda distance, particularly Guiles and Deejays who think they can get free projectile chip at that range. While I can see the merits of Guy always keeping on your opponent, my particular play style is always to get their ass in the corner as soon as possible. Use LP/EX hozanto, MK/EX tatsu, whatever! If they get out of the corner, send them flying across the screen into the other corner or throw their ass back where they came from. That’s just how I play. I feel Guy’s too wishy-washy mid-screen against a lot of characters. But against everyone (except for maybe teleport characters) he is pretty damn godlike when he has you trapped in the corner. Once your opponent clocks on to your run slide -> neutral jump OS, Guy kinda runs out of options pretty quickly mid-screen as well. But I respect the difference of opinion!

I agree, Guy’s corner pressure is really where he shines and he does a good job at getting his opponent to the corner. I just really hate teleporters in that regard though since they can get out of there pretty easily. It’s not that I’m disagreeing with you, I just find that Guy have some issues that makes it really difficult to play him the way he’s supposed to be played, i.e. pressure and frame trap.

@Black-Toof: What vortex are you speaking of? Guy’s jump arc is terrible for that since he usually ends up sailing way over his opponent.

EDIT: I watched your commentaries versus the Guys and I see that you refer to Guy’s run stop pressure as vortex? As well as the elbows? I don’t want to claim like that I know better than you as I consider myself still pretty new to the game (had SSF4:AE for a year) but those aren’t vortexes. Compared to Ibuki or Akuma vortex where you are stuck guessing on knockdown and can potentially lose by guessing wrong, Guy is far from it. I mean, sure, Guy’s options against opponent’s wake up are pretty good, but probably no better than many others (I find shotos options against wake up even better).

nebbiez · 2012-09-25T22:07:37.000Z

I agree, Guy’s corner pressure is really where he shines and he does a good job at getting his opponent to the corner. I just really hate teleporters in that regard though since they can get out of there pretty easily. It’s not that I’m disagreeing with you, I just find that Guy have some issues that makes it really difficult to play him the way he’s supposed to be played, i.e. pressure and frame trap.

Wall jumping can REALLY help here. I use it to bounce off the ‘opponent’s corner’, so if they teleport or do some other bullshit (like Bison’s EX psycho crusher) to get out of the corner, you’re already in the air heading towards them for a punish. You have to kinda read into when they’re gonna go for their escape, which if they know the Guy matchup will be pretty much as soon as you get them in the corner. I also use this to try and bait out Hakan players with ultra 2 stocked. Make it look like you’re going for an ambiguous crossup, they activate, you bounce off the wall and elbow drop to safety (watch your distance!) and punish hard while keeping him in the corner.

Murdurus · 2012-09-25T23:55:11.000Z

Wall jumping can REALLY help here. I use it to bounce off the ‘opponent’s corner’, so if they teleport or do some other bullshit (like Bison’s EX psycho crusher) to get out of the corner, you’re already in the air heading towards them for a punish. You have to kinda read into when they’re gonna go for their escape, which if they know the Guy matchup will be pretty much as soon as you get them in the corner. I also use this to try and bait out Hakan players with ultra 2 stocked. Make it look like you’re going for an ambiguous crossup, they activate, you bounce off the wall and elbow drop to safety (watch your distance!) and punish hard while keeping him in the corner.

Even though I know this answer to teleports, it’s still pretty difficult to do. Not only do you need to read/guess when your opponent is going to do it but you also need to have the right set up to do it. I think you can only do it off a hard knockdown? So either a throw or run slide but if you’re going to run slide against them in the corner, you may as well do Hozanto instead for more damage (distance permitting, of course). Also, I think it still loses to DP reversals? I haven’t tested it but it seems like it would. So in some sense, as much as you’re trying to read them, they are trying to read you as well.