Avengers... Assemble! Assist/Team thread!

Classic Fighting Games Ultimate Marvel VS Capcom 3
461

Im playing Cap/Vergil/Hawkeye. This is a really fun team to me because of the fact that I can kill anybody off of almost anything with this team. From super jump conversion to a ground back throw, Im doing 1 million at least. I love that. That was my main complaint about my other teams with Cap.

Some Cap/Vergil tech:

I haven’t really kept up with the forums, but with my almost 3 weeks learning this team front to back, I found some nice shit that could be really cheap/derpy.

From midscreen to the corner, if I were to call Vergil and do heavy charging star, not only is it safe, but if I get a hit on you, I can throw in an extra charging star L, launch into a full air combo, backdash, shield slash L, dash, charging star L, charging star H xxx HCS for 689k I think and I build another bar, if I DHC into sword, Im killing Taskmaster and under. Derp option select, yaaaaaaaas.

Let’s say I call Vergil then do charging star L. I get 3 options from that. Instant overhead, low or throw, all leading to death and they can be made safe.

General Cap stuff, but he can instant overhead people his size and over with j. L. If he hits that, he can x-factor and do D+H and convert into a full combo.

Something I have been working on is that on incoming, I call Vergil then do stars and stripes L. If he blocks and doesn’t pushblock, he is forced to keep blocking, if he pushblocks, I can guard break him. If he gets hit, idek what to do after that lol. Im still working on it lol.

When Vergil is on point, with shield slash assist, I can get 3 mixups in a row. After a st. H plus assist, I can teleport back, and then teleport back again, then rapid slash. Or I can teleport back and teleport front and then rapid slash. I think I can get up to 9 scenarios with this mixup. Imma do some more labwork with this later.

462

There has been a lot of vergil synergy tech explored, so I would run through the forums. Cap/vergil are indeed BFFs.

In regards to s.:h: teleport+cap assist, as simple as it is i had not realized you were given all those for free. I spent time with it and there’s 1 more option: qcb+:h:, j.:s:. EX: s.:h:+:a1:, qcb+:m:, qcb+:h:, j.:s: (land), s.:m::h:f.:h:, qcb+:m:, s.:h::s::h:~RT, c.:h:, qcf+:l:, c.:h:, ender… I haven’t fully explored it but I think depending on their character hit box and if they’re crouching or standing, this becomes an ambiguous cross up. Either way it’s a nice addition to the mix up. This mix up engine is insane.

I feel with these find, more and more my game plan is to run vergil always second with Cap and try to get vergil out ASAP. The synergy (and dear god if you have something like missiles or beams with your anchor) front loads vergil so much it’s better than running him anchor (but not like XF2 cant do all the insane things XF3 can). Start the game with Cap and the second you have meter to burn side him out for Vergil. I feel waiting for Cap to die to get vergil in is holding me back. Vergil with SS/missiles can just go ham and the conversions and extensions are amazing.

Also good find on the X-factor j.:l: convert. This should be very useful for oddly timed pressure strings where the assist wont let you convert.

Good shit all around.

[edit] - CS L + vergil assist, is not 100% safe. their is a small enough gap to punish both with most c.:l:'s and even if slightly off timed, you can always throw. If you do a safe delay, you won’t be able to reap any benefits beyond j.:l: XFC/c.:l: 50/50.

Post evo i will have some severely dirty tech posted for cap/vergil/doom. My opinion of the team with recent finds has gone up, I feel he too can enter the realm of stupid TODs > ambiguous reset vortexs.

[edit edit] - sadly my finds were not properly tested. I thought I found a way to set up fuzzy guard on incoming, but the player lands in crouching even if block in air. However the set up still works on a few characters that can be hit by caps insta overhead while crouching.

463

Just got back from evo. Made it out of pools in losers and then was eliminated by Snaketits. I agree with pwnstar that Vergil is one of cap’s best partners but I don’t think it’s true the other way around. It was really Dr.doom and vergil that pulled me through my matches and I think it’s time to move on to a new character.

464

Congrats :slight_smile: Evo looked really good this year. I saw another Cap use Cap/Vergil/Strider, but fell to ApologyMan quite badly (edit: there was also JustGoogleIt who used Cap/Task/Sent)

With regards to your team, what Doom assist did you use? Doom and Vergil are better than Captain America, but the former two don’t have much synergy between them, and most people are beginning to realize this in the other discussion threads. And to be honest I don’t feel like Vergil really needs a partner; he can set up his own 50/50’s and can hit at least 850k solo. The most he could use is probably an OTG assist, this turns his damage output to 1.1m which is crazy ridiculous lol. I think Vergils better in the assist slots.

Still hope you have fun with you’re new character :slight_smile: Just in case though, would you possibly be up for trying out different variations of your Cap team, or even a new Cap combination? Either way, well done again, I dream of playing in Evo, I’ll try to next year lol ^^

465

Vergil/Cap(SS) is pretty decent, but there are indeed better assists. Really it just gives him a really tricky multi-cross up and a DHC with invincibilities.

After this EVO though it completely changed my perspective on the game and teams. I feel with Cap/vergil is still a great shell, but missles more and more were becoming less prominent in solving caps matchup issues against better players able to cope or punish. In my pools I was knocked out in winners by Buckethead with some seriously dirty dirty Zero/morri/doom tech that opened my eyes, but in losers I lost to a Hawkeye/Task/RR. It started out fine, but missiles couldn’t get started and getting the spacing right to CS my way in was difficult. Once he got ahold of Cap he would snap back and suddenly I had Doom/Vergil/Cap. Basically doom is fuuuuuuuuuuuucked in that matchup without the right assists and Cap anchor is bad. Doom/Vergil or Vergil/Doom is a great shell, but I think Cap can do better and those two can do better than Cap.

I would suggest finding more Cap/vergil shells. This isn’t to say Doom isn’t good, I just feel we can find something dirtier and maybe it came down to the assists. As good as missiles are, cap basically had two slow assists and beam or rocks might’ve been a better call. Strider is a big consideration as he solves a lot of air issues and isn’t helpless if thrown to point since he’ll get sword loops and already has an incredible neutral game.

I heard rumor of some serious Task synergy that hasnt been explained on the boards yet. Someone mentioned a near infinite block string. Cap(CS)/Task(H arrow) is already a good assist sooo…

In regards to teams in this game, I was seeing a lot of abuse of alpha counters, unblockable set ups, and weird DHC/THCs. Buckethead beat me when I made a bad doom call with vergil on point, activate Morrigan’s dpf+:atk::atk: hyper, then buffered Zero’s Shadow clones. I X-factored to block and before I realized it, he had set up an unblockable by doing the high/low with zero while i was stuck blocking. I think in hind sight i could’ve chicken blocked the hyper had I expected that, but still… Also his use of morrigan’s srk assist as both a very good GTFO/anti air and an insanely good alpha counter became an issue to my typical pressure strategy. In fact my whole team has issues with invincible moves since missiles and SS are the only tools cap can use to confirm a hit safely.

Also…Cap needs a derpy incoming set up to keep pace with what the rest of marvel is doing (TOD vortexes). I’m heavily reconsidering use of RR(log) after seeing some very impressive RR’s. Also am I crazy, but does RR have a great MU on vergil and doom? I found myself completely helpless to this little bastard. Either his mines told my to fuck off or he was impossible to hit with projectiles.

466

I mainly used plasma beam and molecular shield with Doom, charging star with Captain and rapid slashes with Vergil

And I sort of disagree with the vergil statement. as an anchor, yes, xf3 vergil is very strong, but otherwise, he needs some help. Throughout the tournament, Vergil got snapped in by most of my stronger opponents, leaving captain as my anchor. Vergil still had plasma beam, but once vergil died, doom would be left with a not-so-useful assist, forcing me to try and bring captain back in, but unfortunately, captain doesnt have a safe DHC option so I’d be left with trying to hard tag him in or TAC him in. These were my main struggles with the team, leaving me with the conclusion that captain needs to be replaced. I really wish captain’s assists could have been H charging star or L or H shield slash

467

Ugh I wish those were the assists. Shield Slash L would be stupid amazing.

I’m very big on vergil second with Cap. With vergil, yes he is one of the strongest anchors in the game but that doesn’t mean he is strongest as anchor. Vergil’s ideal spot is 2nd. You get Swords loops, safe DHC, full screen THC buddy that hard knocks down after a long active frames (you can OTG and continue the combo!!!), he gets partners, Cap (SS) is pretty neat with him.

Snapping cap to anchor though is really harsh. I’m noticing smart players do it when they can’t kill him and unfortunately cap and vergil are only good assists for a few characters. This is where I’m shying away from doom, he’s got a huge target on his head for superior zoners who don’t want to deal with that assist and can pretty much beat him for free.

468

I’m friends with the guy who (sadly) got bopped by Apologyman. We play pretty often, and I must say that Cap/Vergil/Strider is a really good shell for Cap. It gives Cap a ton of stuff that he needs, such as safe Charging Star, ToD and safe DHC, anti-air assist, as well as decent incoming mixups. But as Apologyman demonstrated, snapping Cap out and messing with the team order really throws a damper into things, and I personally don’t think that Strider is any better off than Doom in that situation.

I think that whatever the character is that fills in the Cap/Vergil/______ shell has to be one that can fend for himself without any assists since CS/SS and Rapid Slash don’t really do anyone else any favors. Doom doesn’t seem all that bad off to me, but other characters that come to mind are Nova, Task, and Dante, and also Dorm and Sent to some degree. I don’t (currently) play Vergil so I don’t really know how these characters would mesh with this team, but if anyone has any thoughts on this, feel free to share. Once I get back to the states I’m gonna be trying to grind Marvel pretty hard, and I’d certainly love to keep playing Cap if someone can figure out a way to keep him viable.

469

I have been debating Task. He would be a more well rounded approach as he plays all positions very well and has a great MU against problem characters. You also now get 2 assists that make CS safe and can alternate with the two for very annoying block strings. My only concern is, does this utility give enough coverage for Caps neutral game? Also we are missing a solid incoming mix up on characters who can dash over vergil or a cross over. Task does work very well with vergil though.

I feel Cap is so close to viable, but the teammates he’s forced to pick often create conflict over who gets placed where and survivability of a reorder. I REALLY wish I cap/vergil was more friendly with good incoming assists that can be effective neutral game for the two. So much of this game revolves around neutral game tech ANNNND a fucked up incoming. It’s not that these teams cant compete, they’re just not getting the same mileage as say a zero or wolverine team that get those rewards and more flexible teammates.

Also pro tactic, if you want Cap/Vergil/Task, you can order the team as Vergil/Cap/Task and give yourself 2 great teams by holding an assist on load:

:a1: - Cap/vergil/task
:a2: - Task/Cap/Vergil

Not 100% but I think Task f+:h:, j.:m:+:a1: (SS), j.f+:h:, j.:h:/:s:/qcf+:h:(1) might lead to some super tricky cross up block string with the SS assist pulling them back (out of corner!)

470

I still think Iron Man is the best fit for second. Unibeam helps get in, Repulsor greatly helps mixups, you have a 0 frame sniper for 2 bars, stupidly good DHC tricks with Proton Cannon hitting before the flash, and Tony fits perfectly with Doom.

471

Doctor Doom/Plasma beam is better than Iron Man. Doctor Doom is a better character than Iron Man, and (unfortunately) if you want to have a shot at being even attempting to be competitive, you have to use good characters.

Plasma Beam is one of the best neutral assists in the game, and benefits Cap greatly, from fullscreen control as well as giving him Charging Star cover. Plasma Beam also has more durability than Unibeam, so you can eliminate projectiles/heavy zoning with it better than you can with Unibeam.

I’d also recommend Strider anchor, as he gives Cap air control, which deals with that weakness. And he arguably is the best assist for Doom (I’d prefer Amaterasu but Cold Star is unfortunately unsuitable for Captain America).

472

The problem with Doom/Strider is that you lose a bit of kill potential with Cap on point if you’re running beam. You get TACs and Infinites, but you don’t have a real guaranteed 100% kill once you land a hit with Cap since Doom DHCs are kind of poopy. In practice that’s not really a terrible thing, but I can think of countless times where I failed to kill a character and it came back to haunt me. Also, correct me if I’m wrong, but I don’t think Beam or Vajra really provide Cap with a good incoming mixup.

473

@tofuykey You’ve mentioned some valid points. Personally though, I’d rather have a well constructed team over TODs, DHCs and mix-ups that I may not be able to implement.

Unfortunately, I feel with Cap you can either try to cover his weaknesses, or enhance his damage output/mix-up game, at the expense of neutral his neutral game.

I personally feel you have to worry about getting in first place, before you even think about potential kills and DHCs. And as Cap is a mid-range character by design and hasn’t got the best buttons, I don’t see how you can compete against his bad match-ups and top-tiers with with well constructed teams without at least a good neutral assist.

You’ll also seldom find a DHC that works outside of the corner with Cap anyway. Do you sacrifice support for a DHC, which you need 2 bars of meter for anyway?. Still, if you’re that worried about killing a character, you can always x-factor on them.

And Captain America isn’t Zero; at best on incoming he has cartwheel plus assist, shield slash + cartwheel or some of the tech E (MyNameIsE) showed with the ambiguous cross-unders [1].

Cap/Plasma/Vajra has plenty of options/tech available to it [2], though I’m leaning towards Tatsu assist more now [3]. And Cap just isn’t good enough to make use of some of the better assists (hidden missiles, jam sessions, cold star) like other characters are (Magneto, Zero, Morrigan, Vergil) at neutral. Still, if you’re approach gets you the results you want, then go 'head ^^

[details=Spoiler]1= I personally use improvised staggered charging star + beam mix-ups on incoming. Against button happy-Vergils, I just bait them with the assist call and punish their helm breaker

2= Scattered throughout the thread, I also have some footage I have to put up

3= Justin Wong inspired me with his Evo showing.[/details]

474

Just curious, who would be your second with Tatsu?

475

That’s been my dilemma. Magneto or Dante.

To elaborate: Dante I think would be the more practical, with his Jam Session assist for air control (which I’ve used before). And I remember Dante/Akuma shells from Vanilla from the likes of Yipes, and a great DHC (I’ve killed Wolverine off an unoptimised, assistless Cap bnb into MIllion Dollars), though obvious problems being converting with off Tatsu with Dante, among others.

As for Magneto, that’s more a personal choice rather than practicality. Magneto’s my favourite character next to Captain America, and there is great synergy between tri-dashes and Tatsu, as well as a load with top-level players who also used the shell in Vanilla (Yipes, Marn). Though Magneto and Captain America have synergy issues. I may play Magneto on point to solve this, as Magneto needs less help to play than Cap.

My main concern with both teams is that I these teams (with Cap on point) aren’t capable from fighting at range I will need to try and close down the opponent at all times. Though with Cap/Dante, the team hyper combo would be a could tool against zoning to use from full-screen if I can stock the meter. Then again, Tatsu doesn’t care about beams (which I’ve learned the hard way using charging star+plasma beam against Tatsu assist).

There may be other characters that are a better fit for Cap/x/Akuma, but those would be my two ^^

476

Do you have a conversion off of jam session for cap? I feel like landing that is inconsistent as hell

477

My conversions are poor as Jam Session scales so greatly/badly; I really just improvise and try and combo into his anti-ground kick ( :D: + :H: )->light shield slash to make them drop low, or go for a pseudo jump+shield slash loop (:m: :h: shield slash, :m: :h: shield slash- if hit stun allows me to ¬_¬ ). I may add a :m: and/or :h: beforehand depending, but yeah you’re right- it’s very inconsistent as it’s really situational (no shield slashes in the corner ¬_¬ ). At time’s I cartwheel+Jam Session mix-up grounded opponents then go into [air] :m: :h: Light shield slash, [standing] :h: :s: etc… Then I usually try and force a tech for a reset or TAC attempt.

But I don’t even bother adding a hyper as I only just about hit 200k and so.

478

Yeah, I really wanted Jam session to work but the inconsistent nature made me avoid it. I tried very hard to establish a consistent conversion and couldn’t.

479

I posted conversions for Cap/Jam session a while back, it is hardly inconsistent.

480

Ok I’ll give those a shot. I’m still toying with Strider, but I may go with dante if i can make jam session feel viable. That assist is broken as hell.