That explains a lot of the difficulties I was having with him…I haven’t faced a lot of Clarks, but typically they’ve been Point choices so not a lot of meter to worry about initially.
Thanks for the info!
I just bought the game for casual enjoyment and to add to my collection of FGs. I would still like to enjoy it online though, but I can’t find any games in any of the modes. I know SNK isn’t as popular in the states but wow… 0 games on XBL on the newest edition of the game? Are there some ports I need to open other than the standard XBL ports?
Edit: Oh wow I feel dumb. I bought KOF XII… If I weren’t a collector I would return it.
If you post video links using Spoiler Tags, I’m willing to watch the videos and it’ll help not clutter up the thread. I don’t know exactly how to use the Spoiler function on SRK, haha, so if you can search around and find out how that’d be great. But yeah, I’m willing to watch people play if they post their stuff. It’d be easier to post a video with a specific time stamp of when you play or just to simple upload the specific matches that you want me to watch so I can analyze and give feedback.
If you can narrow down the number of matches to a select key few, I can try giving it a streamed video commentary.
Appreciate it gentlemen. It’ll just be 3 matches from our last local ranbat i’m interested in getting critique on. Once they are uploaded i’ll get them added in a spoiler tag. Should be up by tomorrow.
Low attacks always retain their low property. Also in older KOF’s. It’s because whether something is low is determined by the hitbox of a move, not by a ‘flag’.
When you cancel into a move, it usually becomes cancelable, but loses all ‘flags’.
So it loses ‘overhead’, ‘hard knockdown’, ‘stagger’ etc.
Alright so as promised I’ve got 3 matches to share. To give a little background, I’ve been playing fighters since 2003 competitively but this is my first KoF i’ve been learning at a tourney level. Of the three matches, the two with Murphagator and Magictophat are the one’s im most interested in since they were my two losses in this ranbat. These two also happen to be the people I play casuals with constantly, so we are very aware of each other’s styles and habits.
I’ll take any and all criticism’s on my play, and don’t shy away from being harsh or pointing out some obviously stupid things I’m doing. I usually have a good idea of where I’m making mistakes in my play but as I said, this is my first KoF so I very much want to know where to look to improve my overall game. Any comments/criticism, no matter how general or specific are very welcome and much appreciated. I really enjoy KoFXIII and I haven’t put this much effort into a fighter since Guilty Gear died out so I am devoted to becoming a strong player in this game, and more than anything I just want to see the game succeed, so expanding my own knowledge to share with others is never a bad thing.
Thanks again in advance for taking some time out to take a look at these.
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[media=youtube]ActBhIYoSP0[/media]
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[media=youtube]BV_0mrtJFiQ[/media]
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[media=youtube]AtLq46rVnSY[/media]
Okay, I’ll be writing this post as I’m watching the videos and I’ll be taking notes as well.
What I’m noticing in the first round of the first video is that you seems to understand the basic concepts of the close game with EX Kyo. Made a few judgmental errors there and there but overall it’s solid and such. I haven’t played too much against Kensou but I’m assuming that his second rekka is unsafe on block and that I feel you could use cl.C to punish it. From what I’ve seen, you responded with Aragami. So I don’t know if you intended to do cl.C xx Aragami or something so I don’t know if you’re making executional errors or if you simply don’t know if you could punish it. Need to test that out in training mode to see if it’s punishable. Otherwise a good start
With the second round, I feel like your main way of approaching mid-screen is to use jumps; I generally see full jumps and I’m assuming it’s because you’re anticipating Andy’s projectiles. While you’re doing that, he tags you a lot with early hop j.CD. It’s a good move, but if you actually ran forward and cl.C’d or just “felt out the footsie situation” and just waited for him to do that so he’d whiff over you while crouching and you could have cr.B trip anti-aired him to get a full combo. You also tried to do an HD combo, which was good, but it seemed as if you didn’t pay attention to the amount of meter you had and went for Final Showdown as if you were going to Max Cancel it. In that situation I would have done as many qcf+C, hcb+C xx qcf+A loops as I can before I ended it with qcf+C, hcb+C xx Neomax for the optimal 2 Stock HD combo (at least optimal for me and it does about 650 Damage for it.) So being more mindful of the meter you have is another aspect to work on.
Going back to the first issue, it’s important to get used to variable ways of spacing ground normals to get the desired anti-air without committing against weird stuff. So getting used to concepts such as run-forward cl.C is something you could work on. Your Saiki in the first game is an example of lack of fully utilizing ground normals. There were a few instances where Andy either hopped in or jumped in at you where you could have simply pressed cl.C and it would have won as an anti-air because it’s 2-3 frames of start up. Instead you blocked and let an opportunity slip away. Otherwise I liked your general ideas of spacing with sweeps canceled into projectiles, using his Far D sobat, and I saw some instances of you trying to space with hop j.C for air-to-air. The latter didn’t go so well, but I feel there’s more you could be doing in trying to coax the opponent to go in the spaces you want them to go into before actually trying to hit them in that spot. For me, I gauge how much the opponent wants to close in on me, hold a neutral game/position, or tries to keep away before trying to set up for a particular normal. So at times I try retreating while covering some good ranges such as hopping backwards with Saiki j.B and landing on the ground to instantly use a qcf+A and try to see what kind of strategies my opponent employs trying to get in. So if they happen to see my j.B as a “flag” for me using a qcf+A, thus being a cue for them to jump over my means of trying to “keep them out,” then I run forward and cl.C right underneath to anti-air them if they committed to either a hop or a jump or use a hop forward j.B to air-to-air a full jump so I can get a cross-under mix-up by running underneath afterwards. Then with the next “yomi layer” if they feel out an air-to-air attempt and try to do something like a hop forward, early j.CD with Andy, just crouch, wait, and punish it with cr.B or cr.C anti-air. Stuff like this. These kinds of concepts I am making a video about but I have yet to really finish it yet. So hopefully I can expand more on the far/mid-range tactics more easily with visuals later on.
But yeah, your Saiki is generally “there.” It just needs to be fleshed out with better spacial understanding and anticipation but you’re smart.
The first thing I saw in the King vs Shen Woo match-up is that you let a blockstring go that you could have guard rolled and get a full punish on. While you were cornered, she did cr.B x2, st.B, df.D xx Venom Strike. You could have guard rolled the df.D and let the Venom Strike whiff and you could have gotten an HD Combo to really close the match. You have 4 stocks and doing a corner HD combo surely would have gotten you a good 770+ or 800+ combo. Of course it’s not good to just randomly guard roll all the time because it could be baited, but if you know your opponent in and out and could react to the first 1 or 2 frames of 2-in-1 from the right normal into a special move, then guard rolling should be a bit more free. You still got the kill, which is good, but I don’t know why that King player didn’t block high and a great King player would have never really let you get in on her for free at all. So that guard roll opportunity would have been your best bet against any other King.
Second game: With EX Kyo you’re being a bit overzealous with dp+P. Kensou isn’t the best high/low mix-up character in the game so it’s a bit better to simply just react to his hops or something with cl.C. Again, you’re letting that second rekka get away and you’re being hit with pretty telegraphed “frametraps” by Kensou’s DP afterwards. You should be getting the punishes in the first place. Before you EX Kyo was killed, you could have waited and felt out that j.CD he hit you with and try to anti-air it with cr.C/cl.C/cr.B or something. So I feel you need to work on a bit more patience and try watching what the other guy may do. I feel like you’re trying to get blockstrings and trying to move forward a bit much. EX Kyo is about close to mid-range spacial dominance and he doesn’t need to move forward to do so, he can neutral hop, back hop, or stand still to hold his ground against counter approaches.
With Saiki, once more a few anti-air situations were let go. Didn’t tech any of the throws Kensou attempted. The tech window is generally big in KOF and the way he threw you was really telegraphed. I understand in odd situations or during empty hops that a normal throw would work, but he ticked and walked forward as if it was SF and that’s generally an obvious cue to tech. So I don’t know if it was executional error on your part or if it’s actually something for you to work on and react to. Either way, those throws should be getting you and you could have either counter poked the walk or teched.
With Shen Woo, you dropped the spaghetti hard. Missed a lot of cr.C anti-air situations. If you weren’t sure if he’d empty hop, then doing cl.C OS would have blown him up (see Dandy_J’s KOF tutorial.) But it felt like you got in an SF habit and wanted to neutral jump at times just so you’d feel more comfortable, but that would haven’t been good if Kensou knew to cr.C or st.D you if you did that. It seemed like you were floundering around and mentally guard broken in that last round because you were about to be OCV’d and you weren’t dealing with lolKensou rekka and frametraps that shouldn’t have been working in the first place.
Third game: More missed anti-airs with EX Kyo. What Kensou is doing is early j.C because he knows that you’re not wanting to stick out a limb because he already attacked first and you’re scared of being hit by an overhead so you block early and forced to take pressure. Try to feel out and react to particular hop-ins and try to feel out the timing of them. I think with that early j.C he was doing, I think that’s crouchable so you could have waited and just reacted to him hopping then sticking out a j.C then continue to crouch to get a combo on him. If you noticed he hopped and didn’t do anything yet, that’s a signal he’s going to delay the timing of a jump/hop attack so that it will hit you on the way down so it would hit a croucher. That’s when you either actually stick out a limb like cr.C or st.A, or actually react and block. Otherwise I think you’re able to crouch those early j.C’s and punish with a cr.B > whatever combo. Then yeah, getting hit by more lolframetraps.
In Andy vs Saiki, I feel that after blocking a Zanei-ken, you could check Andy afterwards with a Far D rather than cr.B. Also you let a lot of times where you could have anti-aired him with st.A get away.
King vs Shen Woo: You missed punishing a slide that she let herself go on block. Then later she did Tornado Kick on block which is a free punish for you. Especially since she did it on you in the corner and it was the B Version. So yeah, dropped the soap once more.
Second Video:
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First Game - Once more you’re mostly just moving forward with EX Kyo, and that’s when you get hit by stuff like Ralf’s full jump forward j.CD and stuff like that. Cool on the empty hops into throw and what not. Generally spacing incorrectly against Benimaru. Go into the lab and try testing anti-airs and air-to-airs against him. You’re either not pressing any buttons when you should, or you press the wrong button at the right time and you still lose (e.g. Shen Woo’s cr.C losing to Benimaru’s cross-up j.D.) Then you’re dropping combo opportunities.
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Second Game - Against Ralf and against Benimaru in the last game, you’re going for throw punishes at times when you could be getting cl.C. A good/bad player will just mash throw tech since they’re able to tech even when they’re thrown during the recovery of their attack. So try to practice doing bigger, guaranteed punishes. Yeah, you don’t know how to space against Benimaru. Really hit up the lab and test out spacing against it will all sort of angles of approach or counter approach. Test and know when cr.C will hit or if st.A is optimal. Also his hop is arched higher than others so try working on reaction DP against it if you could. I wouldn’t recommend reaction DP against stuff like a Ralf or Kyo hop, but try doing so against Benimaru.
Third Video:
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First Game - Need to stand block against RED Kick more, it’s punishable on block if you stand block it.
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Second Game - Missed punishing a bunch of rolls. Getting used to those just take time and experience. Could have cl.C punished Kula when she did that slide. You did a throw but I think that’s more executional error. I’m assuming you meant cl.C for something bigger.
Overall, you do somewhat well when up close and doing general pressure attack strings. But, you’re not on point with your anti-airs and you’re leaving gaps in your pressure because you generally move forward instead of maintaining ground to check the opponent, making sure they can’t escape, then continue with pressure. Going on the offensive doesn’t necessarily mean having to employ a mix-up or moving in. And your lack of a strong neutral game and ability to anti-air allows for the opponent to generate a momentum against you. The best thing you have is being able to wait with Shen Woo for them to do a jump and you super them. Otherwise most of the time you were landing damage was going for reaction supers as anti-air with Saiki or Shen Woo. Once you lost momentum, you almost never really recovered and are forced to take on pressure. And when you are put on the defensive, your lack of understanding of anti-airs and punishing guaranteed opportunities are squandered.
So you start off with good steam but lose out on momentum later on due to the many holes in your game and you scrap by with reversal super by Saiki and Shen Woo’s explosions. So hit up the lab and try working on hold your space and working on anti-airs. If certain anti-airs lose against certain jump-ins by particular characters, exercise some imagination and try to find alternative ways of anti-airing or trying to air-to-air them instead from the appropriate angle.
Also work on punishes because there were too many times wasted where you could have gone for something big. If you feel like you’re in walking distance to cl.C and punish, but get a throw because of it; then just run in. Even if it’s a short distance, just run in and cl.C/D. Then yeah, punish Kensou rekkas because that second one should be unsafe.
Otherwise, I like how you utilize the rule of 2 outside of not anti-airing correctly. You attempt safe-hops/safe-jumps when given the opportunity, and you generally have a good head on your shoulders. A bit overzealous at times with reversal DP, but you’re not that bad at all when it comes to that as there are those that are much worse. That’s all I have to suggest at the moment based off your videos.
Laban -
Thanks a ton for the detailed breakdown, I really appreciate it. I’ve definitely felt since I picked up KoF that my netural game is by far my weak point in my game. A lot of my habits and mindset I built up from playing Guilty Gear for the first 7 years of learning 2d fighters (and the ST after that), definitely show thorugh in my game. I definitely don’t have that feel of when to back off on attempting pressure and just let the opponent hang themselves through their agression. I’m still very much trying to figure out the Anti-air game as well, and needing 5 or 6 moves to cover the entire anti-air anti-hop game has been a tough learning process for me, but getting specific examples like you’ve laid out here should help a great deal.
Just a couple notes, it’s funny you mention not CD rolling to punish King on the Slide xx venom strike. As i mentioned Tophat and I play every week, and in our local tourney just last weekend, I actually punished with a CD roll into full HD for the kill when he did that same string, so unfortunately i out-thought myself and figured there was no way he would use it against my fully stocked shen. (doh).
Everytime you see me get a throw for a punish is definitely a big execution mistake, I’m always trying to do cl.C into whatever the best punish is i have available, but i defintely screw up the input buffer and get throw way more often than I intend to, something I’m working on quite a bit. You were also spot on when I hit the HD combo with Ex Kyo, I flat out read my meter wrong and thought I had 3 so I was planning a max cancel and just shot myself in the foot.
I’ll definitely take the advice you’ve given to heart and spend a lot of time in training mode testing out my neutral game and overall punishes better. This being my first KoF there are a ton of nuances and things I just don’t quite grasp yet, but having someone break it down piece by piece as you have will be a huge help, so thank you again for that. Hopefully I can have some vids in the future that show some improvements in those areas and then I can figure out the next step in improving my overall game.
how do i get duo lon to rip shirt when ko??? i ko w/ special move but it not work??
Stop being a fucking scrub you piece of shit. Fuck out of here, bitch. Subhuman, bitch ass ho.
Anytime, yo. I’m always wanting to help with open arms and an open mind.
I was going to ask a question but your domestic violences has scared me.
But seriously, any specific “rule of 2(or 3)” offensive set ups that Robert has in this game? I find myself limp dicked when I’m up close with him, and just mash lows then hyperhop into his BD command normal.
For me, my basic hitconfirm is cr.B, cr.A. From there I can commit to another hop, a sweep, or st.A. If I hit with the cr.B, cr.A, I can cancel into f.B and go into whatever normal I want. Also abuse his j.D more. So I do stuff like cr.B, cr.A on block, then do a neutral hop or back hop into j.D. I do this so the opponent that wants to hop/run/walk forward will be tagged by my counter to counter approach. I do that coupled with Dives to be annoying. Another neat tool is st.CD xx Projectile. Imagine something like Ken’s Far Roundhouse from Third Strike but it’s cancelable. So it’s a neat poke that goes over most lows and checks the opponent’s spacial control. So I can do stuff like cr.B, cr.A > st.CD xx whatever as a block string. Or simply just go around and poke with cr.B, st.CD, projectiles, hop forward/back/neutral with j.D and j.CD, space Dives safely and annoyingly, and DP full jumps on reaction. Robert has a decent close game for Rule of 2 and has a great sweep and a good st.A/B/D and cr.C for anti-airing hops and jumps. Add in a command throw, he has some ways to mix up and do basic pressure up close. But I feel how he dominates is all in his spacing game mid-range, a range which I haven’t done a tutorial video of yet.
But that’s the general lowdown of things.
Thank you Laban.
Any good way to deal with roberts and takumas flying kick keep getting blown up trying to AA it on reaction or punish.
I use K, Kensou, Nests Kyo.
I have a question for SNK; Why is the unlocking of colors so retarded? Honestly, pick a character 40 times? I mean you can’t even grind them on arcade mode, it’s got to be either online or offline VS. Fuck you.
You can grind against random AI in VS mode.
All I could do really is either reaction DP, always try to maintain a spacing so that the dives would be unsafe on block so I could punish it on the ground, or be ready to neutral hop or neutral jump in a manner that the dive kick would land underneath me and I can punish on the way down. Those moves are intentionally good and frustrating because it really tests your ability to zone and space against these moves. Robert is just a really, really obnoxious character. In 98, he had safe dives, a guile sobat kick that was overhead, and a proximity unblockable that either lead into a chunky f.B > DP combo or a hit reset back into a cross under mix up into grappler okizeme. He’s more watered down in this game and boring but his Dive is still kinda obnoxious coupled with his new cross up.
I know Laban gave you a writeup, but I’m gonna give you the stream treatment.
I’m starting at 23:00 CST, and I may also look over some matches from King of Fridays between Reynald and Mr. KOF.
I’ll could something similar if anyone else needs a match critique since I’m hard pressed to find amazing matches right now.
Thanks Sparkster, I will for sure tune in sir. Always appreciate more insight, and i’m always down to support midwest streams.