There are 2 explinations for this. Either his opponent is waking up with rc dp or his timing for the meaty was off. If a meaty is timed right it will beat a DP.
no it won’t. simplest example, have bison knock you down, do a meaty crouching rh slide w/ a shit ton of active hitting frames.
pick sagat/ken/ryu/anybody w/ a decent DP, triple tap your punches to get the reversal sign. they win, everytime.
or do sagat w/ a meaty crouching fierce, the same thing happens, an invicible DP wins if the reversal message pops up.
peace
That was a mistake on my part. I should have thought it through before I said anything. Same reason wake up supers or wake up rc will beat meaties.
There’s a reason I thought that the meaties would beat dps. There have been many instances where my meaties would trade with dps. For example ken vs ken, i stick out my roundhouse meaty and enemy does jab dp and it traded.
It depends on the DP your opponent is doing, the meaty attack you are using, and the timing of your attacks whenever a reversal DP might trade or get beaten clean.
Oh, I forgot to write in the first post that Chinese people aren’t allowed in this thread either, so get out.
How about that k-sagat write up you promised?
I recently picked up blanka, and poring over the blanka forums I noticed that there really isn’t much in the way of blanka basics. Your Sagat and Bison notes were awesome, and there’s mention of the same thing for Blanka that you did, granted you said it was pretty badly out of date. Anyways I was wondering what’s good stuff to work on with blanka. right now I poke and hop around looking for a knockdown to set up RC elec/throw shenanigans. Any tips I should definitely know?
Sup Onikage. Yo, you’ve been playing CvS2 even longer than I have. There’s nothing I can tell you about the game that you don’t know already. If you must though, I recommend the Glory Lin notes in the “Strategies and Tactics” thread. He writes all the same tips I would write, and he has the Japanese book too so he knows all the frame data and setups.
Don’t do any RC’s or even pick Blanka if you want my opinion, because footsies Ken and Chun-li, along with momentum/mixup Iori and Kyo, are the best characters in the game anyway.
yea but i play A groove, and all those characters are too hard / gimmicky in A. I had Vega on point for a while, and I like him there, but I miss low jump rh so he’s on the n-groove team with iori and sagat. Team low jump abuse! So blanka to battery for bison and hibiki. Anyways thanks, hopefully we can play again sometime. And time in doesn’t mean much, I’ve been playin since day 1 and most people are better than me. I blame these broken shattered hands hehe.
What’s Kyosuke’s best groove? and what’s terry’s best cc again? is it sweep, burn knuckle till corner, rising tackle buster wolf… then um… rising tackle right?
I heard that kyosuke rose above king do you know if anything was found?
Also I was wondering if you could give me some terry frame data or tell me where to get it.
Sorry, I have no clue about low tier or how to play any A-grooves characters other than A-scrub. You should ask BTK or Nick T. There’s no full frame data for Terry yet? I’m not interested in this character so much, so I don’t want to do the work (plus I did Nako and Rugal’s already). Just know that his d.MP and d.HP are very useful moves. Both hit really meaty and give big advantage. d.MP is also a super fast four frame attack. His close fierce comes out in four and gives +2 when you don’t cancel into anything (making it a safe hit confirm). Sweep is 6 and leaves you at -8 on the block.
Why are your avatars always so scary?
How often should I use cross ups? I play a variety of grooves; doesn’t mean that i’m good or anything but I know a lot of characters i suppose. I like using C Ken, Chun Sagat. I know that C Ken’s cross up is great but how often should I really use it? Does it depend on the characters? For example, if I’m playing against Blanka or someone who doesn’t have a great DP, should I use the cross up more than say, against Cammy or Sagat?
Another C Ken question…or Roll Groove in general…is RC kick overrated or not? I don’t know if I should really learn it. It’s soo hard compared to the RH version (which is a hell lot easier to RC). RC elec is easier than RC funky kick. So is it actually important to learn RC funky kick? And if it is, what are the methods? I’m trying to use hcf + roll, lk. I try to do the roll in the down part of the hcf and then lk.
Are you asking about when to use random cross-ups? If so that’s a more advanced strategy question that you should be asking BKT instead. The characters I have the most problems with when they randomly try to cross me up are Blanka and Bison. Chun-li’s isn’t so much a cross-up, but the fact that she comes down right on top of you. When she does this from the perfect range, it can be difficult to deal with, but no where near as tricky as Blanka and Bison’s jumps at times I feel.
I never go for random cross-ups with Sagat. His jump just isn’t suited for it in my opinion. The first thing I’m always looking for against a Chun player is for him to pull a Canada and super jump at me with LK assuming I’m just going to let him do it. So I don’t recommend jumping whenever you want with her unless you’re looking to get dp’d.
You can’t randomly cross-up Blanka. He’s jump back and smack you every time (you’re lucky if he doesn’t zap you into a CC actually). You can’t randomly cross up Vega or Cammy either, because they can always walk under and throw you.
I always go for a cross-up with any character I have whenever I get a knockdown against any character OTHER than Hibiki. I have about a one frame window to time my Sagat roll, super jump LK after a dp+HP if I want to make my j.LK meaty. Otherwise, Hibiki can always jump away, or even worse, hcf+K.
Conclusion:
-The only sure time to go for a cross-up is after a knockdown. Any other time, I don’t know. Unless you have Bison or Blanka (or Raiden with his air d+HP), ask Buk or Choi instead.
Ken’s RC kick is not overrated. It’s only overrated when some wise guy just learned how to roll cancel and thinks they can spam it risk free.
I do my RC kicks using negative edge. b, db, d, LP+LK (hold), df, f+(release LK). I don’t care how anybody else does it. This is how I personally get this move out most consistently.
If you don’t like RC kicks. Then pick P or K Ken instead. He’s just as strong as he is in C because of his awesome high damage level 3 combos.
There’s no doubt in my mind that C-Ken is the best Ken though. His level 2 cancels, alpha counter, and RC kick are much too versatile moves to pass up. Remember Ken still has all his other top tier moves like 2 frame shoryuken, s.LK, close s.HK, and d.MK in non-roll grooves though. Play whatever groove Ken you like if you don’t like RC kicks.
A quick beginner’s tip if anybody is interested…
Unless they’re playing a 360 character, even the weaker players know not to mash on throw after you make them block something. Because of this, don’t hesitate to go for your one frame link combos after making the opponent block. Only when the opponent is mashing on a throw will your initial hit not be a counter hit and your combo have one frame difficulty. If the opponent is going to mash anything, it will 95% of the time be a jab or low strong (low fierce if they have Blanka). Counter hit with your Ken d.LP, d.HK xx something, Sagat d.LK, d.MK xx super, or Rolento d.LP, d.MK every single time. Nakoruru d.LK, d.HK xx super even if you want to be fancy. Blanka d.LK, d.LK xx super if you want to be cheesy.
Now whenever an opponent gets up after being knocked down, they WILL be tempted to mash on throw. That’s when you go for a more reliable counter hit combo (that doesn’t NEED a counter hit to be easy) like Ken d.LK, s.LK xx kick, Rolento s.LP, d.LP xx super, or Sagat jab, jab xx Tiger Crush.
note: Don’t go for Ken d.LP, d.HK combo if the opponent likes to mash on roll, but that’s a whole other topic.
Oh no I meant a cross up after knockdown. See, I think I might be crossing up too much because I keep getting dp’ed and I’m starting to think maybe I should stop crossing up after knockdowns. Like…limit it maybe?
I like C Ken. He’s my favorite Ken because of the lvl 2 shoryureppa and because C holds meter and builds it fast. Plus, he’s a great battery and can GC people if played correctly. Anyway, can I substitute RC or maybe RC RH funky kick?fireball for RC funky kick?
And about Bison…what’s so great about his cross up? Is it necessary for Bison to use his cross up in order to be good? btw I’m starting to learn A Bison…maybe this will help?
You might not be doing the cross-up after a knockdown correctly if you’re consistently getting dp’ed. When you do the Ken j.MK perfectly meaty and right on the center line of the opponent’s sprite (use the way the opponent bounces after getting knocked down to help with your timing), this is very difficult to DP. If they actually pull the DP off, then all the power to them then. Don’t limit anything. A meaty j.MK Ken is one of the single best gambles in the entire game. I take it every time regardless.
There is no substitute for RC short kick. If you can’t do it, then keep practicing.
Bison has the best cross-ups in the entire game that’s what. Either randomly, as a meaty, cross-up or not, all his jump-ins give him time to link into scissors kick xx death.
Find the perfect angle on Sagat, and he actually cannot anti-air you unless he uses jump back HP. Well, Sagat can anti-air you, but he needs to crouch until the very last second, and then use his “cross-up” dp input. Most Sagat players I know (including myself) mess up more often than not.
Ah, the anti crossup Tiger uppercut (or DP in general). The motion for this is just a HCB+the button for the DP (P for Ryu,Sagat, etc. K for Cammy).
Kcxj, my question is, how important is it to learn the anticrossup super? I dont think I’m getting the motion correctly. People tell me is the Iori super motion but I don’t get it half the time.
BTW, Kcxj, go on AIM cuz I have a poker question to ask you.
Cross-up super motion is a must against Bison and Chun-li. Whenever they super jump over you head, it’s a HUGE opening. Don’t you want to do as much free damage as possible? Super them instead of just using DP. Stop at DB by the way. Not the full HCB motion for DP’s.
Four diamonds on the board in Hold Em. One of the board diamonds is a King. The nut hand for a player would be Ad and Qd right? Nick had the Queen of Diamonds. This other guy had a low diamond. NOT the Ace. Person with the Queen of Diamonds wins right? But since the King is the highest card in the flush, this guy is claiming that the pot gets split.
Five cards play, jackass. The guy ended up refusing to pay anything to Nick. The downside of pickup poker games I suppose. No floorperson for enforcement and to settle disputes. If some guy tried to pull that garbage against me, I seriously would of broken the shit out of his legs though. I keep baseball bat in my car and black people around me just for that purpose.
Answers like this are why kcxj has his own thread.
Do you do any online play at all kcxj? either live or PC stuff?
Anticrossup super? You mean like lvl 3 puffball for Chun or Lvl 3 Mega Psycho Crusher for Bison?
Oh and about the crossup…i think that people are using that cross up DP trick or w/e. The one where you do the reverse dp.