You can’t be thrown on wake up for 6 frames.
Do you think US players play a lot more defensively compared to the top japanese players? Is playing more defensive in 3s, playing the wrong way?
Well a recent example i talked with someone about was Ken’s target combo, in particular the Hayao vs Shie set and why he didn’t attempt the red parry
I wouldnt say Us players play more defensively. They are not so strong on offense, defense, and game knowledge. Not playing by instinct but instead thinking about every single moment makes the matches very slow paced. The big difference in Japan is how fast good people play.
Playing defensive or offensive doesn’t matter as long as you win.
Just to attempt the red parry on tc in a non okizeme situation would open you up to a lot of things. Looking for it would be distracting, and hayao was trying to throw shies dashes i think. In fact, ive never seen anyone do it consistently outside of meaty okizeme or after a guarded jump in/cross up.
Hugo gets hit by short short short standing and crouching. Attempting to red parry tc a lot would leave him open to the second and third short short. Im pretty sure they both know this. Also shie is scared to get close so we dont see many meaty attacks and therefore not any red parry attempts.
Kinda sad this thread died so fast. Back in the day I would have done anything to be able to ask questions about 3rd strike.
Just so everyone knows, this isn’t about only Japanese 3rd strike. I feel I can play a large amount of the cast at a competitive level and know a lot about matchups.
Also, general 3rd strike techniques and mindset are good things to discuss.
Revive
[details=Spoiler]Some stuff
What’s your mindset for guessing in general?. It is something im horrible at, and i’ve yet haven’t got a grasp of it. For general i mean, not only when you’re being pressured, but also when you’re attacking/footsies.
When doing footsies/corner pressuring, how do you decide what to do next after situations like, guarded/hit ken’s cr mk midscreen, chun’s st hp/cr mp hit/guarded. And viceversa (you’re the one being attacked)
In case you “think” you’re mixing your stuff in a non predictable way, and you get randomed out/blocked the same, what do you do to be more “random”/“wild”?, so you can force the opponent to be more defensive.
Bit scrubbish yeah, but im relly bad in these aspects mentioned above.
[/details]
Well i was hesitant to ask something so broad, but:
As Oro, what do I do against twins? I hate both of those matchups.
I know I should stay out of the corner to avoid crossup divekick shenanigans.
I usually use Yagyou, but I feel like Tengu is better here, since it’s so hard to setup unblockable loops on twins. Is that accurate?
Lets be fair ryan… minus like a hundred people across the country very few people play the game at a “decent” enough level to have thoughtful questions that can’t be answered by a wiki or watching a video. Its a shame cause still to me its the best game to date. Very few people who do play seem to still frequent SRK to talk about the game and rather just do so with the communities they are in locally or just play the game without really aiming to improve to the “next level”.
So I’ll ask a few:
- Minus very specific situations are resets during Genijin ever really worth attempting?
- Why did Japan’s mindset on the chun vs yun matchup change?
- What for you as a player is the scariest thing when facing a yun, especially on wakeup?
- Why do 99% of japanese yun players not go for fancy combos or use Kara Palms? (minus people like saru or yakkun doing a few reps of maedajin- normally the amount before the hitstun diminishes to the point where you need to kara with f+mp)
- How important is it to learn to jump guard as a viable option on wakeup? (Danke said it was quite crucial for characters like makoto IIRC when i talked to him at NEC last year)
- In your opinion what are the most crucial setups to learn to red parry?
- What do you feel are yun’s best tools vs urien?
- At what point do you feel matchups become less important and more about player performance/understanding?
I’ll get to answer these tomorrow but I’m glad theres some activity.
Shodokan: I know not many people play but I was hoping for more than a week before thread death. Lol
No question is too scrubby.
Also, I like how deemo gave his opinion as well. I’d like this to be an open discussion too. So if anyone has anything to add then please do so.
I’ll try to answer some since I’ve been studying Yun a lot the past 2 years and Ryan can add to it.
-
I think you answered your own question here by saying “except for specific situations” or need to reword the question.
-
On wake up with meter or in genei close mk is probably the scariest thing to get hit by.
-
people don’t want to drop kara Palm. maeda-jin is just a combo to show off, dai-pan loop (fierce punch loop) is better. but like resets, specific situations make this a desired combo or an excessive choice to use. Basically some players prefer to go for practical combos instead of optimal.
-
guard jump is strong, practical and easy to use. Like you said more useful against command throw characters. I’m pretty sure this is a tool that 90% or more of 3s players use in Japan.
-
a couple notable strong things in the match up are: a. poking with cr mp (annoying poke, can be difficult to punish on parry, beats headbutt, etc) b. cr mk (if parried from far theres a mix up to punish unless you always punish with cr mk) c. Worth mentioning I suppose that uriens elbow can’t punish cr tech on parry. I’ll leave it at this for now.
Aside from Makoto, is it ever worth it to use Rocket Upper versus anyone or is it just player preference? As it is now I use it against Akuma, Urien and Chun-Li mainly. Is guard jump useful to do outside of on your wakeup, like could you use it if you were both midscreen, you were outside of throw range but inside of say Ken c. mk range?
I’d use sa3 vs Gouki, it’s best to have loads of Corkscrews stocked up and ready to punish HK tatsu. Sa3 vs Urien because he cant punish with launcher and when he does mid screen tackle xx aegis you can use sa3 safely to beat the follow up tackle without worrying if he might bait out reversal. sa1 vs Chun? i can see the logic but i dunno, sa3 is so good plus you can do the hk xx upper xx sa3 thing on Chuns wakeup
Basically Corkscrew is better all round, but i do use sa1 vs Makotos but change to sa3 if they are quite parry happy
He can’t? Is this assuming you don’t do Corkscrew at point blank range? What hk xx upper xx sa3 thing? You mean to like chip damage her for the round?
i dunno, rocket uppercut is much scarier to me. 50% reversal on blocked tatsu! but certainly its player preference. 35% damage on blocked tatsu is pretty good too
Wait, what’s the logic behind using Dudley’s SA1 for Makoto? That sounds like a pretty free SA2 combo on block / whiff for Makoto.
My understanding of it was, if you do F + HK to try and hit confirm super on crouch hit, if you’re too far away SAIII doesn’t hit because her crouch hit animation moves her too far back, but SAI will.
In addition to dart shot (toward roundhouse) x rocket upper connecting from further on makoto, it reduces the amount of Rock Paper Scissors when you go for okizeme. So I can see how cork might be valid vs sa1 makoto but vs sa2 makoto not a wise choice. Each time you go for okizeme towards the corner youre risking getting comboed into sa2)
@Devdan why would dudley whiff or allow makoto to guard rocket upper? think about it for a minute or two.
When and how should the twins use divekicks (specifically Yang)? Could you just never use dive kicks or would that be a hindrance to developing myself with the character?
Is there a place where I can find a matchup chart/list or something for Yang? Trying to add more stuff to his 3S wiki page as I continue to play him.
Lee twins divekick leads to a few combos and mixups, both of their Strong->Fierce->Back+Fierce link pretty easy after one, and depending on how deep you land you can set up a command throw