every FGD thread is about shitting on each others games
Why are dive kicks so powerful?
Changing air direction and speed messes with peoples prediction skills.
Donovan has a divekick and suck really bad.
Wolverine on Mvc2 too.
I really enjoy this thread original objective. And it answered a lot of things already
Is not that dive kicks are powerful, is that on recent capcom games they have been implemented that way, this for multiple reasons besides of the dive kicks themselves, like not many characters having reliable anti airs, for example.
Now, if you are talking about DIVEKICK, well, is only natural, since is a game where you play for souls 
Why does “balanced” these days usually mean a cast full of mediocre characters?
Because that’s what people presume it means 
Any designer that was any good at all has to understand the balance between making a game interesting and wanting all the intended choices (in this case all the characters) to be viable.
The idea that good balance has to be this bland ‘everything is the same’ shoozefest comes almost entirely from fans.
Threads with mainly Xes and Psychojosh in it always have a tendency to make me want to bash my skull in.
So many strawman arguments.
I swear they’re in front of their students right now, in the debate hall, after school, just saying “look kids, this is how you do not formulate an argument, keep in mind, these are just examples”.
Also, how is that Divekick game doing, when is it going on steam, I want to collect some souls.
So why then do we usually see good and interesting characters nerfed to the level of mediocre ones instead of keeping the game interesting?
On a related note, thank goodness that there are a few design teams out there who aren’t nerfbat happy. AM2 is one and Team NINJA with the announcement that they will be buffing characters to the level of the top tiers in DOA5 seems to be following in their footsteps.
Because it’s a LOT harder than it looks, and some things have to be nerfed.
As an extreme example, lets say you had a 3 frame attack that gave you 5 frames advantage on hit and no combo scaling. It has a nice hitbox, and moves the attacker forward some, so it’s an easy 1 button infinite.
There’s no reasonable way to buff the other characters up to that level. The best fix is to change the properties of the infinite-fodder, which is by definition a nerf.
Still give me an example of what you’re saying from a specific game. I just got up so I can’t think of any right now (except seeing below, but that’s not fighters)
And believe me I know what you're getting at. One of the things I loathe about Blizzard is the way they seek balance by sandblasting the hell out of their games and removing all the interesting rough edges. It really does make the game more boring.
@Spaceouttanightmare: strawman...? The fuck?
Edit: again, really, we kind of agree. I think there's too much emphasis on tournament balance in the genre right now. I'd rather things be interesting and weird... although part of keeping things interesting is having a fairly wide range of characters/styles be viable.That is easy, because outside the people who has been playing FGs before SF4, the others (at least the majority) only have SF4 as a metric
They don’t know better
Also, so far only capcom balances their games by making every character mediocre with each iteration, maybe Netherealm too, but they still have characters that are strong, and only few characters got cool tools nerfed (Smoke, Ermac :()
You can’t have 1 button fireballs and shoryus because they would be broken. Unless you make them slow as fuck your opponent wouldn’t be able to jump at all, you would be able to react much faster and there would be tons of infinites. Not to mention that dumbing execution down is a bad idea in general.
you’d just have to design the game (or at least the character) with 1buttons in mind. There are even a few examples extant that aren’t totally broken (usually megaman variants)
Making 1 button specials is a terrible idea for a variety of reasons, especially in a 2D game like Street Fighter.
You would have to dumb the game down to accommodate that. Meaning slower moves so you can’t react to stuff faster, or do infinites. Another problem is that you would homogenize the cast. There is a reason why charge moves are charge moves and not shoryuken inputs, and why 360s are that way. Street Fighter moves are designed to work in a certain way depending on the input associated to them. The properties of charge characters in particular are designed around the inputs, anyone who ever played Guile or ST Balrog will know that.
Imagine if Guile were able to do Sonic Booms while walking forward, or Flash Kicks while standing. It’s not just a cosmetic issue, his moves would have to be completely changed to the point where he would play nothing like Guile; he would be just another one-button shoto.
WW-ST CPU Guile could do this. Remy can charge buffer both in 3s off dashes and after walking forward a step or two. SvC Guile was basically this too because the charge time was on the level of Karnov. Neither of these made the characters god tier.
WW-ST CPU Guile could do that and it was broken as fuck. Sonic Boom, then walk forward flashkick. I remember Balrog was able to infinite you with rush punches since he didn’t need to charge them. If human players could do that those characters would be god tier.
Remy isn’t god tier because projectiles in 3S are nearly irrelevant due to parrying. Plus he can’t do charge moves anytime he wants, just like SvC Guile can’t do his moves anytime he wants (and charge moves were fucked up in that game). SvC Guile had a Sonic Boom infinite though, so if he had that with short charge times, imagine if he had NO charge time and the ability to do them while moving forward.
You’re making the mistake of just putting a good 1button fireball onto an existing character or an existing game.
Like I said, you’d have to start from the bottom and design with that capability in mind.
Just giving guile instant flash kicks or sonics would be broken yes, but if you started from scratch with the idea that each character has a projectile button, and set up the game with that in mind, it could work.
You just have to be creative with the forms of the games.
1 button fireball? Megaman and Cyclops.
But if you put it on a new SF (as the poster I quoted asked), you would do away with a lot of character uniqueness, there would be no input-related variety and depth and you would have to make moves slower and less powerful for that to work. I can see one button specials working on a fully 3D environment, mostly because you wouldn’t have much choice. But a 2D fighting game with all 1-button specials? It would just make the game much worse.
While i understand what you are saying, 1 button specials can work on 2d fighting games, of course this means that the game and moves need to be done from the very beginning with that in mind.
It is possible to make an SF game with 1 button specials, but this also means that said moves wouldn’t behave at all as their actual counterparts that are designed with the inputs in mind.
Would this change how this theoretical SF is played compared to previous sf games, more than probable yes, at least in a way, would it take away the depth of the game? not necessarily, would it take away the uniqueness of different characters, perhaps, depending on how is implemented.
Definitively many moves wouldn’t retain their current properties, because that would make them too good, maybe border line broken, i agree with you that in no way it can be done while keeping the moves the same as they are now, but i totally belive that it is possible to make it work, see BB or P4A.