KoF98 has standing overheads, standing lows, throws, command throws, proximity unblockables, AND guard crush, which is like the most ways you can possibly have to open up someone who is blocking and it STILL uses hold back to block which leaves open cross ups. What could you possibly create that would give you more options than that while having a block button? I would really like to see what you come up with.
This is the gameplay mechanics for our fighting game title Ascension X. Before I can details the gameplay I must mention a few notes from our story as they tie so closely together. The title ascension comes from the fact that every character wants to awaken or ascended to their fullest power. However in our universe every power or ability a character has will have their own drawbacks. This is meant to limit certain characters and make sure we maintain balance throughout Ascension.
Ascension allows characters to face each other in a 1 on 1 fight to the death. So in order to win you will need to ascend your character to their strongest level while monitoring your own power. If you use too much power to quickly you will be left vulnerable. However if you don’t use enough power it will be hard to defeat you opponent. So in order to win you will have to consistently monitor the four meters in Ascension. You have your standard health meter, energy (power meter) Super meter, and finally the Ascended meter. It is also important to note that Ascension at its heart will be a combo based fighting game similar to Killer Instinct 1, with some original twist, and influence’s from Anime, Sci Fi, Mortal Kombat.
Health Meter = UI_GM_HM
We have a standard health bar, which starts at one 100 percent and if it reaches 0% you lose the match. So right at the top you will have your health bar. However some characters have special abilities that can alter this. For example Dead end special ability allows him to deal damage to himself, and to heal damage very quickly. He can also do a special ability and transfer damage to you.
Special Bar = UI_GM_CB
Directly under that bar you will have an energy bar, or KI bar. That will slowly drain as a character uses’ special moves. If the bar drains all the way to 0% the character will run out and be unable to use’s special moves for the rest of that match. This bar will constantly refill so as long as it doesn’t go to zero you will be ok. This is one thing that will be unique to Ascension and meant to keep people from over spamming there special moves. I was a big fan of mortal kombat but I hated all of the spamming. It is my hope that this bar will help us eliminate spamming completely. However as a balancing act certain characters will have a high special bar then others. And the stronger the move the more power that is drained out.
Super Meter = UI_GM_SM
We will then feature a super meter at the bottom of the screen. This super meter will be familiar to anyone that has played mortal kombat 9 as it will act in the same manner. Whereas the more you block, and damage you take the more your super meter builds up. It will have 4 states, 0%, 33%, 66%, and 100%. So the meter will be broken into 3 parts, which can be used. Obviously if it’s from 0% - 33% you cannot use it. Once the meter reaches 100% you can use it all to transform your character into their strongest form. A WM can use that power to transform their weapons into massively powerful objects. Certain moves called enhanced moves will also drain your Super Meter and some moves can only be used while you have super meter. All characters Combo breakers, will cost 1/3 of their super meter, so if you don’t have that much super meter you cannot break a combo. Each character will also have an Enhanced move list that will cost 33% of your super meter to use.
Ascended Meter = UI_GM_AM
The last meter is the Ascension meter and it will only appear in the place of the super meter once you have achieved ascension. This meter will work as the opposite of your super meter as it will build up slowly, but it will be draining. So the more you attack the more Ascension meter you will have. It will have 2 states, anything over 50 can execute your character ascension move (which is the strongest move your character has) however if your meter runs out you will cancel your transformation and go back to your normal form. It is also important to note that if you don’t have any special move bar you cannot ascend. Ascending doesn’t cost any from your special meter but fi you have ran your special bar down than u must finish the match with no special moves. This is meant to be a negative for over using your power.
Types of characters
And now we need to talk of the 3 types of characters featured in Ascension. The different types of characters are determined by the way they use their powers.
A Weapons Master or WM from this point on can channel his power into his weapon creating a stronger version of the weapon. This will act similar to a captain in Bleach turning his zanpato into a Bankai. Our first character Aker is a prime example of a WM. (he uses a sword and shield and can uses his power to create a stronger version of his sword, and his shield will gain the power of the lions roar ( covered greater later on)
A Summoner or SU from this point on will be able to use their power to summon a partner to aid them in Combat. Our best example will be our summoner deitrich who can summons a special type of crow to fight for him. The creature that is summoned is called a child, and will be a powerful asset in battle.
The last type is called an Ardenian or AR from this point further. They are capable of using the power to cause a change in there body. Our best example will be our character Lycan who can use his power meter to become a powerful werewolf called Cerberus
Gameplay
Fighting styles / normal moves
Every character will have a core moves set. Which will consist of simple fighting moves such as an uppercut, round house, the moves that each character can do will be determined by their fighting style. For example lycan uses Maui Thai and his moves sets will be based around Maui Thai.
Special moves
Each character will be given a special set of moves that will help them get victory. Some will be simple projectiles, while other will be specific for creating opening in defense. While others will have special moves that will allow them to get out of danger and increase their defense.
Enhanced moves set
Every character will also feature a few moves that will act as enhanced moves sets. These will cause you to use your super meter, but will be great for inflicting great damage and catching the enemy off guard. This is meant to break up the gameplay. At its heart this game is combo based, but if you can’t land a combo you can use your enhanced and your special moves to win the round.
Throws
Each character will be given two throws that are completely unblockable, and meant to stop a character that is in blocked position.
Combo break
Every character will also be given a combo breaker that will cause you super meter. So if you dot have enough super meter you cannot use your combo breaker.
Weapon parry
I am a big fan of martial arts and anime, and the most incredible move I have ever scene is the sword parry. Our game will feature a special form of parrying that will also cause you super meter and must be timed just right to work. It will be extremely hard to use and should only be used if you’re an expert. It will create an opening from any person’s physical attack. So it won’t work on projectiles. I’m still in talks with my developer on exactly how we can implement this feature. But we’ll use our character Aker for example, if he attacks with is strong sword attack, you can use your timed just right sword parry to deflect it and create an opening. As of right now you will have strong, medium and weak parry’s. So know how your opponent is attacking will be key in using this feature.
Ascension
Your ascension can be used once you have 100 percent of your super meter. It is meant to give you the best abilities your character has to offer. This is meant to be purely offensive and will run out if on the defense to long. It is also important to note that you can build more meter form attacking. If you have 50 – 100 percent of your meter you can perform your overdrive technique. Ascending also stops time briefly giving you a sense of bullet time. More for look than gameplay.
Overdrive technique.
Your overdive is the strongest single move you have in the game and can’t be used often. Mostly likely it will only be available once or twice in a round. For example our character Aker in this form can fire a sonic cannon named the lions roar that will deal great damage to your opponent.
Combos.
The biggest part of ascension is using your enormous move set to link combos. The most skilled player will not only rely on 1 or 2 hits at a time, but will use your characters various modes, to link extremely big combos together. For example starting a combo in your normal mode, and ascending to finish your combo.
Also important to note I have sketches for my interface. I work as a UI designer on mobile apps and haven’t had a chance to officially create them. I’m happy to hare my sketches though.
I don’t like this at all. Projectiles are an [important par](2D vs. 3D of what defines the 2D fighting game genre.
At best, this looks to be a band aid solution to balancing projectile characters. At worse it flat out scrubby design. In fact, I’d say it discourages smart, efficient play since it forces players to resort to less efficient tactics or be punished.
A better solution would be to make sure that every single character has tools to deal with fireballs (heck, give them an SFIII style parry).
If you insist on having a special meter, then the penalty should be at most inability to use specials for a short time only, not for the entire match.
Balancing burst/breakers fueled by meter is a precarious thing. Depending on how much meter is gained from getting hit, you could end up with a situation that actually discourages combos
I think that goes without saying since throws by design are supposed to punish blocking.
Unless off course you mean to be able to throw someone who is already in blockstun, which is just bad design.
Why not just do a SFIII style parry that requires timing to use but does not consume meter? This also has the benefit of providing a universal to to help players deal with projectile pressure.
Ok as far as our special meter it will drain slow so projectiles so unless u sit in the corer and trow 200 fireballs u shouldn’t have to worry about ending your special meter. However I’ve had a few other people suggest the penalty only being so specials for a short time.
the throw is meant to discourage blocking.
I have added other moves to characters to deal with projectiles and such.
I could certainly riff a bit on a hypothetical block button fighting game if you’re genuinely interested. I tend to avoid that sort of thing since I should be spending my time on my actual concept docs, BUT out of sheer curiosity and ‘mental exercise’ it may be worth an exception.
Also, I think you guys can apply open mindedness to a different kind of 2D fighter - one you may not wanna play but is functional as per design (like Mortal Kombat for most of SRK). It doesn’t raise an eyebrow that most suggestions stem from KoF or SF? SF3’s Parry mechanic is, in my view, an even larger affront to 2D fighting game space control than a block button or move stamina would ever be.
This is also why I don’t believe devs should share tentative gameplay details on this kind of forum so early in the making. Way too many cooks in the kitchen. I shared some of my actual work with ascension on FB privately.
Take these suggestions as a guide, but ultimately do whatever you feel is best and fun to play; because no real innovation will occur as long as people stay dogmatic to the rules and standards that have been established by other 2D fighters.
This is exciting! I’m always happy to see new indie projects here, but it’s particularly nice to have another developer around tackling 3D.
Feel free to use us as a resource. While we are Unity based, I’m no stranger to UDK. I’ve been overseeing our art pipeline, so if you need any advice with that aspect of development let me know. I can tell you right off the bat with Ouya as a target platform you’ll need to take special precautions building your 3D assets to keep the draw calls down.
Yes my developer has been going nuts with the draw calls of OUYA. we are making a PC demo and then altering that for whatever platforms we target. rather that be lighter graphics or less features.
also I’m taking all the notes as suggestions and I will decide for myself what is fun. Or rather decided the game I would want to play. I have however been getting so much feedback from this forum that I feel it will help me build a better game.
Except SFIII’s parry’s weren’t the reason fireball zoning was weak in SFIII. You could take parries out and fireball zoning would still be weak in those games (especially 3rd Strike). Other games have implemented parry-like mechanics and still had strong fireball zoning?
It’s not so much that I’m interested in a conceptual game that has some kind of mechanics that isn’t going to be made regardless, I’m simply pointing out that there is nothing you could do that would add more options by adding a block button. There is no extra mechanic you could come up with to give players another option to open someone up because everything from a pure fundamental conceptual perspective has been done in some fashion or another. Adding a block button immediately without question no exception will remove options where there otherwise would be. You can try to design the game around the block button like MK did and do something like chip damage on normals, but that doesn’t really add options either, that just creates other problems you’d have to organize and deal with such as how much chip things do, whether chip like that can kill someone, and on top of that frame data becomes even more important since you can’t have these super long inescapable blockstrings that are piling up chip on someone.
Block buttons are a means to simplify the game by giving you less to think about, but for 2D games they often create more problems than they fix. This also isn’t a matter of space control, so I’m not sure where that comment came from. This is about removing options from the game, and space control is a lot more than just fireballs. SF3’s space control was just fine even with terrible fireballs because normals were very strong, and parrying itself didn’t really remove any options because you still had to guess high/low/left/right.
There’s tons of fighters that I wouldn’t play that are still plenty functional, the whole point of these posts isn’t to say that block buttons are the worst thing ever and Mortal Kombat sucks, I’m simply expressing my thoughts on how functional block buttons in 2D fighters are. These are just things to consider when designing a game, because in a fighter every single possible decision on how the mechanics work exactly down to the smallest minute detail can have a massive impact on how the end game will play, which is really what any dev should be thinking about. The most important thing you can ask yourself is simply “How will this game be played at the highest level among the best players?” and mold the game to how you want that image.
I actually wrote a quote and hung it on my wal " where the fun, we need to find the fun" i care first and foremost that ascension will be a fun game. That will give the user hours of beatem up gameplay. All else will come second.
Call me old fashioned, but I never really liked having increased emphasis in frame data in a 2D fighter. Back in the day, it was enough to know which moves were safe and which were not. I actually find the NRS games, pseudo-3D style of strings with emphasis on frame data off putting.
This thought of yours is the very antithesis of the exploration in game design. You simply cannot be that sure about this as if all possible concepts were tested out. I simply do not agree fighting game design is that limited already - it’ll take way more than only two decades of fighting games to conclude something like. And you especially can’t just pass on a hypothetical think tank on the matter if you feel that strongly.
Gonna drop it.
Listen, I don’t even like MK - but even with a block button it is functional. You may not like it, but it is functional. It has tournies, it is played by millions, it is competitive. It is a functional fighting game, same as Street Fighter to Smash. Do not confuse a game that isn’t your cup of tea for whatever gameplay reasons with a dysfunctional game. I have had contact with Ascension on FB and never, never, have I tried to ease him into some kind of playstyle or mechanic I personally like. I only try to help him articulate his concepts to us, while supporting his own gameplay decisions. It’s his game. It doesn’t have to be something that speaks to me or you, it has to be functional. Then from there perhaps he’ll gather like minds and build a user base. He’s making a game he wants to play and sure enough there will be people who feel the same as him. This is really all that’s required of him at the very least as a developer - a functional game, not something everybody here is down with.
It would ironically boil down to a game built by committee, something that essentially ruined mainstream gaming, but that’s another rant for another day on another forum.
Haven’t had the chance to test it myself but that doesn’t surprise me. Just make sure that if the OUYA is in the cards you’ve fully investigated the system bottlenecks and if manageable, budget more than you expect for down porting. Speaking of which, is Unreal supported on the system?
Oh god please no. “hold punch press up forward back up release punch” was baaad.
Block button and “high X \ Low X” sounds like MK and bad (for me).
Just take part of game system from Crucis Fatal Fake. If you get rid of strange arenas and forced 2v2 it would be very solid.
the game that did block button the best is virtua fighter and won’t be topped totally different game anyways
One of my issues with having a block button for 2D fighters is the lack of commitment that it represents. Whereas holding back to block actually presents 4 blocking states (left high, left low, right high, right low, not counting air block which adds two more), a block button reduces this to two states (high and low). Now this would be fine, for 3D fighters, since those have a pretty in depth, interesting and complex up-close game. Not so much in 2D fighters. What cross-ups and left right mix-ups (the result having to chose between blocking left and right) do is make the up-close game more interesting using something unique to the 2D genre - the fact that you change sides quicker than in a 3D fighter. Back to block allows players to utilize that factor. From an aesthetic point of view, it’s like being able to blindside your opponent. Hitting them from the opposite direction from which they’re facing. From this point-of-view, back to block can almost be seen as a cheat then - wherein someone is able to block your attack even if was coming from a somewhere they weren’t looking.
You can add depth to a block button by creating a disparity between blocking effects depending on attack. Rather then where to I block; it is when do I block that is made a more important decision. I was gonna elaborate on this example but it seems people are to their guns on the matter.
But that’s just parry/just defend.
And yes, I actually am interested in trading thoughts/POVs on this.