Dudley is the best character period.
this whore speaks truth…cept when he says Chun is good with no supers. All you have to do is random parry guess her and she’s fucked. Also, this discussion is about NO super, right? Cause Chun SA1 and Ken SA1/2 and Yun SA1/2 are pretty good.
whats the difference between that and doing a “random parry guess” and fucking someone else up?
Ken still hurts even if he doesn’t have access to SA3. SA1 Ken can still be like “hey look, I have a gay combo and a lot of bar”. He does a ton of solid damage even without the super thanks to his great footsies and the lovely air EX Hurricane Kick.
Chun-Li would lose the “I can hit this off a c.MK and absolutely rape you – and I can have two of these motherfuckers” factor of SA2 for the “I can still c.MK you and land this bullshit, but I can only do it once and then I have to zone the fuck out of you for a long time” factor of SA1.
Yun would… uh, get raped real nasty. The only reason he’s so fucking scary is because he goes into “I HIT YOU OUT OF ANYTHING AND THUS CONTROL THIS MATCH” mode… very, very often. Without that, it’s like playing Yang, except he doesn’t have EX Mantis Slashes or anything else quite as cool.
Yun - No
Ken - Yes
Chun - Maybe
Yun in my opinion is worthless without Genei-Jin, because you would lose the fear of Genei-Jin and he won’t be able to land any big damage on you. Almost all of his comboes does shit damage anyways outside of Genei-Jin. Ken would definately still be a threat, even without Shippu. Chun-Li is debateable I guess, she still has a very solid ground game, but like Yun, you lose the fear of her super.
I could see this coming when I posted. The difference is that Chun Li has absolutely NO good combos. This means that if you guess wrong, you eat b+fierce xx fierce FB. Now what happens when you guess wrong vs Ken, Dudley, or anyone else decent without super? 40% damage…more in some cases. Chun Li with no meter suffers from the same case of “nopunishitus” as does Vega in almost every SF game.
EDIT: The fact that she’s one the most easily juggled characters in the game doesn’t help her case either.
Yun-No way. Can’t think of anything he can do that will be scary. He will worst then Yang that way, in my opinion.
Ken-Yeah. If not top, at least the top mid-tier. He still has a good rushdown game, so a player can work off of that.
Chun-Li-Even though you no longer have to fear her SAIII, she can still be a bitch. Her hp and b+hp can still be annoying, and she could still turtle pretty well I think
This did give me an idea though. I’m going to go to the system direction and remove SAs from the game when I play it tomorrow with my friends and see for myself who becomes total shit after that.
dude alex is good so is dudley, and yang(all people i play as) and hugo i suppose
Have you ever seen CvS 2 Yun? THAT’S what turns out when you take away Genei-Jin from him. :sad:
yang has had no super for ages… XD…o_O…-_-
makoto is the best without supers
yang is already good without supers
dudley is tied for best without supers
LOL, you know what? good point
someone should just hold a tourny and turn supers off to see what happens.
but r u counting just supers or the total usage of meter? ex’s and super.
if the game just had ex moves then yang and dudley would probably be top
low forward hurricane with ryu isnt a real threat, the real threat he has from low forward is ex hadoken since its safe on block. hurricane kick aint safe unless its ex.
imo no bar tier list
top
gill - no ressurection and gay angel wing super for 25% chip
akuma - same guy just withoiut supers for anti air or major damage still can rush and be a threat with air hadokens and dive kicks
dudley - chain combos and good foosie, mgb combos still worth something
yang - command grab into slasshes, dive kick, slashes!
makoto - command grab, high priority pokes good damage
mid
ken - target combo and short buffers on wake up to dp
ibuki - has an array of combos and mix ups
ryu - good kara throw only thing he misses from bar is ex hadokens to poke
alex - kara throw still eats ppl up and cant be supered to death since he has stamina
remy - doesnt need bar majority of the time
elena - nice pokes alot of her moves wont be punished by supers now
necro - jab hook from cr short is good, but needs one to push someone in the corner since he doesnt has electric snake to finish the job when going for stun.
oro - chicken combo and high stun factor
yun - has command grab and combos still off jab also dive kicks
hugo - still has monster high priority moves and good damage on hits
Q - taunts still there and doesnt need bar when he has c&db and defense
chun li - she cant threaten or inch up on anyone without bar
urien - how does he get in? cr fierce into what, a headbutt?
low
twelve - needs ex’s i think for mix up
sean - needs super to punish and be a threat
edit- forgot necro
… and then you forget the almighty Necro, that in the right hands could probably eat you alive now since wake up game has pretty much be taken completely out and this beast could easily put you in the corner and stun ~ combo you to death.
Necro pretty much has no use for meter other then making his mix up even safer and scarier (random timed overheads, lows, ranged low command throw, powerful regular throws and stun combos). Pretty much a slower version of dhalsim with more combo-ability, trading safety teleports for more mix-ups.
Is sean a threat even with supers?
He’s talking figuratively. The only way Sean will get any reasonable amount of damage in is if he has access to a super bar.
Damn I burn meter constantly when I use him. I like to bait ppl to throw out a poke at mid range then punish it w/ EX low-sonic boom. Faking throws and instead half circle back EX CBK is good too. Plus you would loose his EX flash kick, probably his best move.
On topic though, I think that if Chun’s SAII did about half damage, Genei Jin weakened, and Ken’s SAIII only had two bars, and his command chain lp srk was damage buffered, they’d be about equal to the rest of the cast. Well, almost. Sean would still be shit.
What the hell are you smoking? ShoryuReppa is garbage in this game, this isn’t alpha 2. You can’t use it to punish blocked normals like jinrai can so there goes a large chunk of ken’s threat factor. If you’re not close enough you won’t get full hits or, even worse, they’ll be able to block halfway through the super. Jinrai doesn’t have that problem and it doesn’t do that much less damage. StrongxxFiercexxSt.DpxxSA only works with jinrai iirc so that closes the damage gap too. If you really had to forego jinrai I think I might go with shinryuken for the simple fact that it’s a practically guaranteed anti-air(seriously who can parry random mashing supers?). Then again it’s only 1 bar so EX moves are scarce, I guess that’s the biggest advantage reppa has over shinryuken.
Ken=yes!!
Chun=no!
Yun=no!
Why are you even using a DP in that combo? You should either forego the DP or use a fireball, the shoryureppa works fine there. You can also use the Fierce DP, and cancel either in the combo or as an AA. cr. forwardxxreppa requires more intelligence to use correctly, but it is not random at all, it’s completely distance based. I’ve never tried cr short cr short shoryu, can someone test this? It works in CvS2, so it might work here. shoryu does do more damage, especially if you’re using it to punish whiffs, the damage difference is significant depending on if it’s comboed or not. Shippu does about the same regardless. The shinryu is near worthless imo, who is going to jump at you but not be able to parry? It doesn’t have any real horizontal range either, so you won’t really be punishing anything with it reliably. Also having only one charge really hurts, and the bar is huge. Ken gains meter quickly enough that he can fill 2 shoryu bars in matches, but if you fill one shinryu thats pretty much all you’d have, and you couldn’t use it until you had that one.
I’ve used shoryu quite a few times, and it’s a decent SA to have. I was using it at ECC in casuals 3 years back and racking up a decent set of wins…so I don’t think what I’m saying is just theory.