All this and the challenge mode does an amazing job getting you super familiar with individual characters
Yeah that’s what I thought you said. You’re an idiot.
That goes for you too.
Love you too!
Care to explain or are just going to hurl out insults like a child who just figured out how to log on to the internet?
I’ll explain for him - They make the games too damn easy so scrubs like you can be “good” at them.
Sigh.
Executionally, P4A, much like Guilty Gear and BlazBlue, is very difficult. You have combos that range from a few, to tens, to hundreds of hits using a slew of mechanics to achieve. Cancels, for example, are executionally difficult because they require strict timing and particular set ups. Just like FADCs in AE. In the case of Arc System fighters, you also have bursts, roman cancels, dash cancels, jump cancels, double jump mid combo cancels, double-triple air dashes, double-triple jumps, super jumps, and now in P4A, hops. When these movement mechanics are implemented in to combos, they can become very difficult.
For example. Here is a basic Chie combo in P4A.
5B > 2B > 236A > 236A > 236236A > Dash 5C > 236B > 236B > 236D (4216 Damage, Uses 50% Meter)
Now if you are unaware of how this notation works, the numbers correspond to the num pad on your keyboard. 5 is neutral, 2 is down, etc etc. This combo has a super cancel, into a dash cancel, into another special chain. 236236A is the super, and must be done the very moment the previous 236A connects its final hit that launches the opponent. Too soon and you never get the launch, too late and they tech out of it and you drop the rest of the combo. Assuming you have canceled into super correctly, you then have to dash forward and connect with 5C before the opponent can tech. If you hit too soon, they are caught too high in the air for your next special chain to connect, and 236B will knock them out of your hits, which will allow them to recover and punish before the move even ends. If you hit your 5C too late, they tech and punish you for free, and will probably smash your persona, and counter hit you. Which, in Arc fighters, counter hits on almost if not every move in the game has variant properties. On top of that, you have to burn 50% of your meter to super cancel, and if the opponent has burst, they can interrupt your combo and knock you away, effectively making you lose that meter. So with this one combo we have a few variations that can cause it to go wrong, so each of your attacks has to be absolutely perfect or you risk the combo dropping, and depending on HOW you dropped it, punished for various amounts of damage. Keep in mind this combo doesn’t require any roman cancels, or one more cancels as they are called in P4A.
Arc fighters also have widely varying hit boxes, and some combos only work on some characters. Stage positioning also plays a major role in the execution of almost every combo in the game because those that work mid screen might not work if you are in the corner. Adding in the varying height of opponents upon hit, the ability to tech late to screw up your combo, forward invincible rolls added to P4A, each character playing almost 100% different than one another (P4A being sort of an exception), multiple uses for the same meter, status effect attacks such as poison or confusion, and now added aerial turns to cross up with almost any move… you tend to have a very complex, very difficult game, with very high execution required to be played effectively.
The input directions for specials play little to no part in any game in terms of difficulty. 360s, SRKs, and half circles are not difficult. SRKs in particular, because its simply a forward tap before a quarter circle. The difficulty of a game, or of an individual character, has never and will never be based on directional inputs. 360s are usually buffered into whatever use they have, and half circles… I mean come on man. These inputs are far from difficult.
If you want to talk difficult inputs, we can go right back to Arc with Guilty Gear, with supers like 34123646+P (DF,HCF,B,F + P). Now I know your original post was questioning the difficulty of new fighters based on the release of P4A. So why do I keep bringing up Guilty Gear? Because there is a new version releasing soon by the same company. You have to understand that P4A appeals to a broad audience of people who know Persona as an RPG, not as a fighter. They want their fans to be able to pick up and enjoy the game without having to dedicate a massive amount of time to it. Which is fine, because in this case, it doesn’t hurt the end result of a deep and balanced fighter.
The way you are describing difficulty is attributed to muscle memory. It doesn’t matter what the input is. It can be learned and executed with ease given enough time. You are suggesting then that input creates a false sense of difficulty, and a game is only as hard as its motions, which is just not true. If you are to take that stance on inputs, then you must also take that stance on one frame links, or strict timing of any kind. After all, its simply muscle memory in the end. It has never been what is required to play the game. It has always been, and always will be, HOW the game is played.
So, as I said, you’re an idiot. Think before you speak from now on.
if you think Persona 4 is gonna be the magic bullet that makes fighting games comprehensible to the average dude, then I dunno what to say lol. even with auto combo whatever that game is complicated as shit.
I’ve been trying to teach a buddy of mine how to play FGs; he’s never touched one before. and it has really struck me how things that seem obvious to me are really not obvious. how punishing works, zoning and how to get around it, simple stuff like that. you can talk about it and everyone who already plays knows what you’re talking about. take a guy who never played SF2 as a kid and it’s rough going explaining any of it.
learning FGs has a huge initial barrier. the execution barrier, the game knowledge barrier, and putting those together. once you understand how it all works learning more games is easy but the big problem is learning your first game.
that’s something other competitive game genres are naturally better at: that initial “this is how you play this game” where people can do stuff that feels cool and important even though they may not be able to compete with great players yet. to have a grasp on what’s happening and why. Persona 4 for all the talk about making it accessible is still incomprehensible to the average video gamer, even some who are into other competitive genres. Starcraft 2 has a similar situation I think. the things you have to learn to even play the game are really frontloaded. you spend a lot of time figuring stuff out before you can really play. SC2 at least has a decent campaign mode that teaches basic game concepts along the way. fighting games generally don’t even have that.
Also, this thread should not be here.
Kids these days don’t have the attention span to learn a complicated game. At least my kids. They would rather just point and shoot. ooooh that’s hard.
It seems my generation doesn’t have the time or dedication. I’m 13 and I happen to know almost everything there is to know about fighting games. I watch almost all streams. they jump from thing to thing like little ticks and when they lose they make excuses. Obviously there are exceptions, but that’s the majority
I gotta say that I like ranking up in MW3 just like UMVC3.
And the fighting games are to hard bullshit is not the reason. It can’t be execution or thinking limitations either.
It’s not that the games are hard, rather that FGs take a certain level of dedication and competitiveness that a lot of people just don’t have (or they focus it in other vices). Times have also changed, and people today are lazier than they were before. FGs don’t give out instant gratification (at least not the good ones), as there’s a lot of physical and mental barriers that have to be broken for one to truly thrive.
Personally, I’m not sure to be honest. FPS’ and MMA Dojos are taking over everything that involve martial arts (or at least legit fighting), but I never saw most FPS’ entertaining and find them overrated. I’m a hypocrite for that, because I own L4D2. I should make a thread about that. shot
why did it take 30 posts for this to happen
OH MAH GAWD /Marvel 2 style crowd version
Watching streams doesn’t make you a better player.
Man, this has me loling so hard irl.
On another subject, i just want to point out some mistakes
The combos on persona are actually very short, if some combo is on the range of hundreds of hits which i dont recall anyone being like that, is bceause multiple hit supers or specials.
The one more cancel doesn’t require any type of timing outside needing that you landed the hit with the normal/special, and having the metter to cancel it
The isn’t a single game of arcsys with the burst mechanic where you can burst out from a super.
i think that maybe you went overboard, or maybe i am reading to much between the lines, i think that he is talking about how P4A is designed to be more accessible for those who want to simply have fun while mashing buttons, while maintaining enough room of exploration and growth for those who want to take the time to learn the game.
I think that most gamers, not just the youth, are intimidated by fighting games. I dunno how it works, but it is a little mind boggling how tough fighting games are for some people. I have a friend who plays CoD religiously and he does well every match. For this to happen, he needs to be able to react quickly to what’s happening on the screen, one of the few things CoD has in common with fighting games.
The other day, however, I tried to get him to play some SFxT and SSFIV with me, and he literally could not handle stuff like ABC combos and QCF motions. I kept telling him “dude, hit light, then medium, then heavy and then heavy again and you’ll do a pretty easy combo” but it was just too hard for him to keep track of the buttons he had to hit in sequence. And after letting him practice the hadoken motion for about half an hour, he only managed to fire one once or twice.
Hence the term “range”. There is a range of combos from a few, to tens, to hundreds. I’m also talking about GG, BB, and P4A, not just P4A.
You have to time it to land at the right hit/height/moment in a combo. How does that not require good timing? Either way the argument was never that cancels require timing, it was over the complexity of the game as a whole.
Chie’s super in the example is an install, so you can burst after the 236A because the super doesn’t hit you. The purpose of the super is to cancel the 236A so you can dash in afterward and continue.
Where do you people keep coming from? This thread needs to be moved to that part of the forum I don’t go to because its full of stupid shit like this.