Well you may also be a bit informed about Capcom’s damage scaling but when you juggles with lights, use 3 meter and a Super Art in the end that does no damage it’s pretty spot on.
The game also came out 2 years ago, it wasn’t even a little bit figured out. There’s an optimal combo thread in the SFxTK forums here that keeps getting updated.
That last Heihachi combo was good, if it was long for you (without the Super Art) then you’ll get sick at tag combos. This game has long combos for sure, most tag games do. But I don’t think this game has it’s place in this thread since I think it’s way more strict on footsies as a poke easily converts in 300dmg and same for AA. Knowing your combos won’t get you very far but you still have to know them if you want to be good.
Yeah… I really don’t think this game should be mentionned in this thread.
What team combo are you talking about? The one at around 0:59? I don’t play those characters, but that looks like a really short combo to me. Looks like a jump in, a medium punch, hard punch xx special, then tag in and some jump cancelled move into a jump attack ended by a special. Extremely basic stuff. Just two day one combos punctuated by a tag.
Length doesn’t matter as much to me when it comes to execution as the amount of tight links in a combo. I mean, SF4 combos are very short but I was frustrated as all hell playing that game because of those fucking tatsu loops that were not only necessary, but have been necessary for several revisions, meaning Capcom knows they are hard and necessary and wants it that way. Plus all those character-specific combos have been around for several revisions, which means Capcom intended for that too.
I’ve gone about a year without even playing Claw Iori but I’m sure I could still do his 98.5% 3 meter HD combo because it’s just a bunch of cancels. I’d fucking play Sakura each day for a month and still not be able to pull her basic BnBs off with the consistency that I’d be satisfied with.
The real issue with overtly long combos isn’t the execution, it’s that it turns Poker into Solitaire. It goes from being a battle of two minds to being a test of one man’s hand-eye coordination.
Shit is so stupid that current games even add phantom hits just so the counter goes up. One such example being SF4 Seth’s Lightning Legs. So dumb…
I had the pleasure of seing Sako in action months ago, and even though it’s impressive once you know the number of hard-to-do links he uses, it definitely made SF4 look even more boring than it really is. As soon as he touches you, hit or block, you can bet 10 seconds of (supposedly) gameplay will be gone before the opponent can control his character again.
Yeah moving on, as long as combos don’t take 10-20 seconds to do for just 30% damage overall or anything near that scale of extremes, then I don’t really mind it.
Getting hit by a extremely long combo with pitiful damage over and over is like chinese water torture. Just kill me already lol.
Looking back at some older beat em up games and how they influenced fighters, I wonder why it took 2D fighters a little longer to establish combo based gameplay. Probably due to the limited technology, not allowing to connect hits to individual buttons. While in a beat em up, a single button press would lead to 4-5 hits automatically.
Eg we had to wait till SFA to see Guile truly play like the Final Fight Guy.
then after one point the opposite happened: beat em ups were influenced by the combo system of 2D fighters. Eg games like Sengoku 3 feel more like a 2D fighter than a beat em up.
games without combos suck. the first sf sucked, lots of bad aspects but the no combos part just sucked. fatal fury 1 and 2, aof 1 and 2, ss1 etc all sucked because a major weakpoint of those games is they have no combos. so even if your opponent gets baited hard and fucks up the best you can do is 1 throw or 1 hit, fuck that shit.
well at least in ff2 and the aof games you could still use a super under circumstances to do big damage when your opponent fucked up royally. but that had requirments.
older fighters have retarded combo systems, 3 hit combo dizzy, jump in combo dead. wow, so fun. sf3 and sf4 have the best combo system in the sf verse. fatal fury 3, motw and rb2 have great combo systems for these older games. all similar yet different but all great.
theres more good games with just the perfect amount of comboing in it, but these stuck out. i forgot about kof 97/98 and the ds series, both having a little limited but great combo system actually.
Anything imitating Guilty Gear is combo-oriented.
MvC3, seriously combo-oriented.
Tekken became combo-oriented since Tekken 4 with ridiculous juggles.
King of Fighters combo meter hit the fan since KOF 2000.
Current american games like Mortal Kombat, Injustice and Killer Instinct are strongly combo-oriented.
I think SFIV, DOA and Virtua Fighter, and a couple other indie games no one plays are the only ones not to be combo-oriented. Thank God.
Soulcalibur, while it never truly ever gets it’s day in the sun… is historically non-combo oriented (only a few hits thanks to air control), has simple controls and even with the addition of supers in 5- could hardly be called “combo-centric”. It’s also a mainstream title, though it is still clearly overlooked as evidenced by this thread lol… so, yea.
The funny thing is that GG is not combo oriented, is more akin to SF only with the air axis available for the spacing game.
Compare the regular bnb’s from GG to anything from any other airdasher game.
Answer is yes. Combos are ‘hype’ look cool to onlookers, seeing the counter go up to infinity. However never saw the point of going longer than what Vampire Savior had. Also as far as entry level barriers, the majority of people would rather jump in a game get killed cause they don’t know spacing, how to use their specials, etc than jump in the game and cause they don’t know any combos or close to optimal combos they get killed even though they made 5 correct reads to the opponent’s one. If you have to go to training mode to learn combos just to have a chance to compete, well then there is something wrong IMO.
I think games being more combocentric, along with the death of the arcades, is why fighting games have closed themselves off to more casual players. Ideally high damage short combos are infinitely better. So you get back to the actual ‘fighting’ part of the game quicker. This also means proper spacing for pokes that don’t lead into combos is also more rewarding.
Most fighters are pretty combo-oriented these days however I don’t think it’s a huge issue because these games, once learned, are not execution-heavy. It is easier to do the 30+ hit marvel combos than the 1f links in sf4 with any sort of consistency.
That being said, I am glad we have games like Divekick for people like me who care more for the mind game than grinding execution. So since we have both types of games and some in the middle, (although most are on the combo side) i think we are doing OK. there is something out there for everyone.
Oh it belongs in this thread, tekken and sf, two of the pillar foundations of funimentals meet and you get a anime game system and the rules set based on tekken tag that left all 9 poeple still playing it… the only thing great that came out of that game was capcom showed they could create new cool char movesets with the tekken chars game play.
If that game was 1vs 1 to this day that game would be played and hailed as a wet dream…dont know what monkey at capcom. said let base it on tag.
SFXT would probably be ass if it was 1v1. You’d have characters doing fucktons of damage and others who struggle to break 200 meterless because they were meant to set up tag combos.
reason it should have never been designed for tekken tag…Some day maybe some pc mod or project m style shit would happen… just lock out the tag button , the tag shit should have been a side attraction like Doa tag
They are most likely making all these games combo oriented to please the newer players.
Everytime someone asks me how to play SSF4:AE, the first thing that comes out of their mouths is “How do I do this combo?” before knowing anything else in the game.
So I wouldn’t be surprised if that was the case.