<p>Cthulu boards are solderles as well. Mine at least is.</p><p>I dont recommend the Sanwa route. IMO Seimitsu > Sanwa on both stick and buttons. I have my own reasons for this though…</p>
I also prefer seimitsu over sanwa, but if you plan on entering tournies in the US, you better practice on sanwas. Seems like all the machines here use sanwa. I just swapped out my seimitsu at home for a sanwa for that reason. I still play like ass on sanwas, but i’m getting better.
<br><blockquote class=“Quote”>
<div class=“QuoteAuthor”><a href="/profile/28257/Born2SPD">Born2SPD</a> said:</div>
<div class=“QuoteText”><p>Cthulu boards are solderles as well. Mine at least is.</p><p>I dont recommend the Sanwa route. IMO Seimitsu > Sanwa on both stick and buttons. I have my own reasons for this though…</p></div>
</blockquote>
True, but it doesn’t come with functionality with the Xbox360. You need a PCB and the control board for that one. PS360+ just seems easier to work with if you want the full package. Comes down to preference and level of experience with stick modding I suppose.<br><br>Care to tell us the reason for why you prefer Seimitsu over Sanwa? Or is it just preference and nothing major?
Decoy
12
<blockquote class=“Quote”>
<div class=“QuoteAuthor”><a href="/profile/50728/eltrouble">eltrouble</a> said:</div>
<div class=“QuoteText”>Decoy, if only your PCB is shot, then replace the PCB. Far cheaper than buying a new stick and more reliable than going with the used option.<br><br>Cthulu boards are about $30 but require that you solder the wiring. I recommend PS360+. It costs $60, but it’s extremely easy to install if you don’t want to learn how to solder. If you can cut a wire and know which way to turn a screwdriver, you’re pretty much set. You might need to buy a cheap USB cable ($5 or less) and if the TE doesn’t use common-ground, you’ll need to buy a daisy chained wire or make one yourself (less than $10). </div>
</blockquote>
Good point eltrouble. I actually used one for an old Happ stick I have and it has worked great. Maybe I’ll order another to convert my TE stick. I’ve never tried <span style=“color: rgb(34, 34, 34); font-family: Helvetica, Arial; line-height: 18px; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);”>Seimitsu buttons but I’ll hold out for now and stick to Sanwa because I want to compete on Candy cabs with the Sanwa buttons like I’ve seen in many tournaments.</span>
When it comes to buttons, it’s all preference. Some guys swear by them and claim that they feel better for pianoing inputs. I like the light touch and clickiness of the Sanwas, it just feels very responsive and tactile for me.
<blockquote class=“Quote”>
<div class=“QuoteAuthor”><a href="/profile/50728/eltrouble">eltrouble</a> said:</div>
<div class=“QuoteText”>When it comes to buttons, it’s all preference. Some guys swear by them and claim that they feel better for pianoing inputs. I like the light touch and clickiness of the Sanwas, it just feels very responsive and tactile for me. </div>
</blockquote>
It’s virtually impossible to do frame-perfect pianoing on Sanwa buttons. I’m not aware of any non-09’er/SF4 teen who thinks otherwise. They have relatively loose springs and a very short activation distance, so it is very hard to press them soft enough so they deactivate on the next frame.<br>
<p>^ this, x10000.<br></p><p>As for the stick, its known that Its easier to do flick SPDs (a.ka.a Hajiki Screw) on LS-32. This is really good for thawk, walk in typhoons are soo easy that way. Harder to use with N.Gief though because of green hand. I also preffer the “feel” of the LS-32 over the JLF.<br></p>
7_5_0
16
Idk how can players play on balltop sticks. I always go battop when I buy any stick. I agree on the sanwa buttons, they’re sensitive as hell that I end up swapping it to seimitsus. <div><br></div><div>Seimitsu buttons with sanwa battop for Japanese parts. Omni stick for Korean. <br>The PCB in the Omnis are excellent, I have no problems with it and in the past I bought their Inpin converters from Laugh years ago and it works on all my devices like a charm. <br><br>Give the Korean sticks a shot players. These are built as a tank than any japanese stick. </div>
<blockquote class=“Quote”>
<div class=“QuoteAuthor”><a href="/profile/5265/7%205%200">7 5 0</a> said:</div>
<div class=“QuoteText”>Idk how can players play on balltop sticks. I always go battop when I buy any stick. I agree on the sanwa buttons, they’re sensitive as hell that I end up swapping it to seimitsus. <div><br></div><div>Seimitsu buttons with sanwa battop for Japanese parts. Omni stick for Korean. <br>The PCB in the Omnis are excellent, I have no problems with it and in the past I bought their Inpin converters from Laugh years ago and it works on all my devices like a charm. <br><br>Give the Korean sticks a shot players. These are built as a tank than any japanese stick. </div></div>
</blockquote>
<p><br></p><p>Why would you play on a battop, when almost every tournament is played on a japanese cabinet ? </p><p>If you’re a online warrior you can use what ever you want but if you want to play in tournaments, get used to the standard! </p>
7_5_0
18
^ Yes that’s true to tournament standards. However, just this past 25th anniversary tournament, the winner was a battop player in SSF4AE. Everything does not have to be sanwa. Sorry. <br>I simply find American players to be over-envious to Japanese products that don’t suit them most times because of the fact it is japanese games we all play/compete on.<br><br>I’m suggesting gamers whether pro or novice should find a comfortable desired preference to play instead of adopting to devices not comfortable with them.<br>I tried sanwas and they’re not for me. So are few gamers share this conclusion.<br><br>Remember the 90s fighting arcade scene? They were all American style layouts and endlessly shoving quarters down the machines. Not a single complaint from a player without the opportunity of knowing japanese sticks or korean sticks or chinese sticks for matter.
<br><blockquote class=“Quote”>
<div class=“QuoteAuthor”><a href="/profile/5265/7%205%200">7 5 0</a> said:</div>
<div class=“QuoteText”>^ Yes that’s true to tournament standards. However, just this past 25th anniversary tournament, the winner was a battop player in SSF4AE. Everything does not have to be sanwa. Sorry. <br>I simply find American players to be over-envious to Japanese products that don’t suit them most times because of the fact it is japanese games we all play/compete on.<br><br>I’m suggesting gamers whether pro or novice should find a comfortable desired preference to play instead of adopting to devices not comfortable with them.<br>I tried sanwas and they’re not for me. So are few gamers share this conclusion.<br><br>Remember the 90s fighting arcade scene? They were all American style layouts and endlessly shoving quarters down the machines. Not a single complaint from a player without the opportunity of knowing japanese sticks or korean sticks or chinese sticks for matter. </div>
</blockquote>I dearly miss the grip of the battop. It took me a year to get sorta used to balltops: it felt like the stick had missing parts. You can use any of your fingers to move a battop stick, as you can put them all close to it, jerk-off position. It was just more natural, specially since we would play SF2 when we were on our teens.<br><br>Edit: I feel the PCB on my TE is dying. I’m getting dropped inputs even offline. Any tips for PCBs?<br>
It’s all in preference. Bat tops seem better suited for movement with finger tips. Traditional balltops have a bit more texture to it, especially Korean bat tops with those nice lines cut into it, which allows for better precise finger movement. Balltops, with their smooth surface, are better fitted for the inside palm of your hand. So while your fingers can manipulate it to an extent, it’s better for hand movement, while your fingers are sort of there as a guide.
<blockquote class=“Quote”>
<div class=“QuoteAuthor”><a href="/profile/7169/oldschool_BR">oldschool_BR</a> said:</div>
<div class=“QuoteText”><blockquote class=“Quote”>
<div class=“QuoteAuthor”><a href="/profile/50728/eltrouble">eltrouble</a> said:</div>
<div class=“QuoteText”>When it comes to buttons, it’s all preference. Some guys swear by them and claim that they feel better for pianoing inputs. I like the light touch and clickiness of the Sanwas, it just feels very responsive and tactile for me. </div>
</blockquote>
It’s virtually impossible to do frame-perfect pianoing on Sanwa buttons. I’m not aware of any non-09’er/SF4 teen who thinks otherwise. They have relatively loose springs and a very short activation distance, so it is very hard to press them soft enough so they deactivate on the next frame.<br></div>
</blockquote>
Is there any data to back this? I haven’t encountered an issue with this type of stuff when trying to land reversals in ST. <br><br> <blockquote class=“Quote”>
<div class=“QuoteAuthor”><a href="/profile/28257/Born2SPD">Born2SPD</a> said:</div>
<div class=“QuoteText”><p>^ this, x10000.<br></p><p>As for the stick, its known that Its easier to do flick SPDs (a.ka.a Hajiki Screw) on LS-32. This is really good for thawk, walk in typhoons are soo easy that way. Harder to use with N.Gief though because of green hand. I also preffer the “feel” of the LS-32 over the JLF.<br></p></div>
</blockquote>
Still sounds like a preference issue. Sanwas and Seimitsu sticks are always hotly debated, but for general all-purpose execution, there’s nothing objectively definitive that I’ve seen that proves that one stick is superior to another.
<br><blockquote class=“Quote”>
<div class=“QuoteAuthor”><a href="/profile/50728/eltrouble">eltrouble</a> said:Is there any data to back this? I haven’t encountered an issue with this type of stuff when trying to land reversals in ST. <br></div></blockquote>I would like to see this as well. The switches in Sanwa are functionally identical to Seimitsu, the only difference is the force to activate the switches needed. What’s probably going on is a player’s fingers are heavy handed and not snapping off the button quick enough, leaving the button in activation mode longer. It doesn’t take much force to activate a Sanwa, however, that doesn’t mean the spring is in slow motion releasing the silver ball from the contact points in the switch. A bad switch with a nearly worn out spring maybe, but the switches are momentary contact, as soon as the ball breaks contact with the metal plates to the sides of it activation is lost, which results in a neg edge in the game. The ball has 16 ms to do this, it’s more than enough time.<br>
<br><blockquote class=“Quote”>
<div class=“QuoteAuthor”><a href="/profile/50728/eltrouble">eltrouble</a> said:<br>Is there any data to back this? I haven’t encountered an issue with this type of stuff when trying to land reversals in ST. <br></div></blockquote>1) Simple physics: looser spring -> less forece -> less acceleration -> less speed -> less distance covered to the square -> more time to the square;<br>2) Shorter activation distance -> longer deactivation distance -> more time to deactivate or more required hand control;<br>3) Item 1 makes item 2 harder when doing trills and multi-tapping;<br>4) I could reach 18 Hz with trills on Happ Competition buttons (which are great, if only they were a bit larger). Nowhere near on Sanwas. And around 14-15 Hz on Seimitsus;<br>5) Moonchilde, Sanwa buttons differ from Seimitsus in - at least - 2 ways: shorter activation distance and softer spring.<br><br><blockquote class=“Quote”>
<div class=“QuoteAuthor”><a href="/profile/50728/eltrouble">eltrouble</a> said:</div>
<div class=“QuoteText”>Still sounds like a preference issue. Sanwas and Seimitsu sticks are always hotly debated, but for general all-purpose execution, there’s nothing objectively definitive that I’ve seen that proves that one stick is superior to another. </div>
</blockquote>
I’m talking about buttons. Sticks are highly debatable, among several aspects, from ball tops, springs and throw distances to mounting structure, on lap or cab, etc. I feel several Japanese joysticks are troublesome due to being hard to reach diagonals without the square gate, which, in turn, I find it awkward. I feel I could get used to it on a cab, but it sucks trying to stay on main distances* if the stick is not anchored. I’m too used to playing with a heavy hand.<br><br>*and not slide to a diagonal<br>
<blockquote class=“Quote”>
<div class=“QuoteAuthor”><a href="/profile/50728/eltrouble">eltrouble</a> said:</div>
<div class=“QuoteText”><blockquote class=“Quote”>
<div class=“QuoteAuthor”><a href="/profile/7169/oldschool_BR">oldschool_BR</a> said:</div>
<div class=“QuoteText”><blockquote class=“Quote”>
<div class=“QuoteAuthor”><a href="/profile/50728/eltrouble">eltrouble</a> said:</div>
<div class=“QuoteText”>When it comes to buttons, it’s all preference. Some guys swear by them and claim that they feel better for pianoing inputs. I like the light touch and clickiness of the Sanwas, it just feels very responsive and tactile for me. </div>
</blockquote>
It’s virtually impossible to do frame-perfect pianoing on Sanwa buttons. I’m not aware of any non-09’er/SF4 teen who thinks otherwise. They have relatively loose springs and a very short activation distance, so it is very hard to press them soft enough so they deactivate on the next frame.<br></div>
</blockquote>
Is there any data to back this? I haven’t encountered an issue with this type of stuff when trying to land reversals in ST. <br><br> <blockquote class=“Quote”>
<div class=“QuoteAuthor”><a href="/profile/28257/Born2SPD">Born2SPD</a> said:</div>
<div class=“QuoteText”><p>^ this, x10000.<br></p><p>As for the stick, its known that Its easier to do flick SPDs (a.ka.a Hajiki Screw) on LS-32. This is really good for thawk, walk in typhoons are soo easy that way. Harder to use with N.Gief though because of green hand. I also preffer the “feel” of the LS-32 over the JLF.<br></p></div>
</blockquote>
Still sounds like a preference issue. Sanwas and Seimitsu sticks are always hotly debated, but for general all-purpose execution, there’s nothing objectively definitive that I’ve seen that proves that one stick is superior to another. </div>
</blockquote>
- Simple physics: looser spring => less force => less acceleration => less speed to the square => more time to the quare;<br>2) shorter activation distance => longer deactivation distance => longer deactivation time;<br>3) Moonchilde, they are quite different. The spring is harder on Seimitsus and the activation distance is larger;<br>4) The dead links on the button press thread I posted years ago had me doing trills at around 18 Hz on Happ Competition buttons. The exact same maneuver failed on Sanwas, as the button would be pressed again before deactivation. I can do around 15 Hz on Seimitsus.;<br>5) If you have the Input Watch program - or better yet, XSPR’s execution aid - it should be easy to try double and tripple tapping and checking the results. Doing frame-perfect multi-tapping on unmodded Sanwas is very hard.<br>
<blockquote class=“Quote”>
<div class=“QuoteAuthor”><a href="/profile/50728/eltrouble">eltrouble</a> said:</div>
<div class=“QuoteText”><blockquote class=“Quote”>
<div class=“QuoteAuthor”><a href="/profile/7169/oldschool_BR">oldschool_BR</a> said:</div>
<div class=“QuoteText”><blockquote class=“Quote”>
<div class=“QuoteAuthor”><a href="/profile/50728/eltrouble">eltrouble</a> said:</div>
<div class=“QuoteText”>When it comes to buttons, it’s all preference. Some guys swear by them and claim that they feel better for pianoing inputs. I like the light touch and clickiness of the Sanwas, it just feels very responsive and tactile for me. </div>
</blockquote>
It’s virtually impossible to do frame-perfect pianoing on Sanwa buttons. I’m not aware of any non-09’er/SF4 teen who thinks otherwise. They have relatively loose springs and a very short activation distance, so it is very hard to press them soft enough so they deactivate on the next frame.<br></div>
</blockquote>
Is there any data to back this? I haven’t encountered an issue with this type of stuff when trying to land reversals in ST. <br><br> <blockquote class=“Quote”>
<div class=“QuoteAuthor”><a href="/profile/28257/Born2SPD">Born2SPD</a> said:</div>
<div class=“QuoteText”><p>^ this, x10000.<br></p><p>As for the stick, its known that Its easier to do flick SPDs (a.ka.a Hajiki Screw) on LS-32. This is really good for thawk, walk in typhoons are soo easy that way. Harder to use with N.Gief though because of green hand. I also preffer the “feel” of the LS-32 over the JLF.<br></p></div>
</blockquote>
Still sounds like a preference issue. Sanwas and Seimitsu sticks are always hotly debated, but for general all-purpose execution, there’s nothing objectively definitive that I’ve seen that proves that one stick is superior to another. </div>
</blockquote>
- Simple physics: looser spring => less force => less acceleration => less speed to the square => more time to the quare;<br>2) shorter activation distance => longer deactivation distance => longer deactivation time;<br>3) Moonchilde, they are quite different. The spring is harder on Seimitsus and the activation distance is larger;<br>4) The dead links on the button press thread I posted years ago had me doing trills at around 18 Hz on Happ Competition buttons. The exact same maneuver failed on Sanwas, as the button would be pressed again before deactivation. I can do around 15 Hz on Seimitsus.;<br>5) If you have the Input Watch program - or better yet, XSPR’s execution aid - it should be easy to try double and tripple tapping and checking the results. Doing frame-perfect multi-tapping on unmodded Sanwas is very hard.<br>
Just to clarify things, we are talking about pressing multiple times the SAME button.<br>
I can see why you believe your theory makes sense, but I’d much prefer actual structured tests to be performed that verifies this along with consistent results. Until such evidence shows up, I’ll try and avoid theorycraft and stick with the safe statement: “It’s all preference.”
The theory behind it is more important! Anyone can perform controlled tests with a speed servo and either a controller (+execution aid or input watch) or buttons and a frequencimeter. And it’s not like one can not visually check than Sanwa’s return slower than other major button brands. Just release different buttons at the same time and see.<br>
