Yes, Billy f+A definitely…you can do alot with it in the corner. The combo C, f+A, crouch C, hcf+A, qcf+A actually works in the corner due to f+A’s great recovery. It’s the ideal attack string for Billy in the corner. However, if the guy keeps rolling I’d likelyl wait after the first f+A to see what he will do, and if he just stands there, then followup with crouch C, f+A (or maybe run up and crouch B, or whatever). Billy actually has practical uses for maxmode…involving his far C. You can just stick it out and cancel it to hcf+A at will, and if they happen to jump over your far C, you can whiff cancel that to his qcb+P anti-air.
Kula has stuff that can keep you in the corner all day, pretty much. I posted some Kula stuff in this post:
I don’t know anything about Neowave. I watched a few videos of it…I didn’t quite like the atmosphere of that game…the music, the layout, etc. I don’t know mmuch about the gameplay options.
Emil, just read your Kula strats. VERY good. My favorite thing is to read a good player breakin a character down into a sort of “game plan” even tho I know to be truely good you have to be liquid and adapt, yadda yadda. Those sorts of strats are enough to at least get you playin the same game as good players, even if not always winning it.
Are there any more posts like that where you or some other good player systematically explans an approach with a character? Any character. I just like looking for ideas, not x-copying entire styles. but I love to learn new tricks, traps, lockdowns, etc.
I would say who I’m most interested to see but it’s always changing. A good Ralf explanation might be cool… umm… shit, anyone lol Whip or Takuma maybe… anyone you’re passionate about You already did Athena pretty much in this thread.
So far the characters I feel good with are: Robert Yuri Athena but I dont want to play that team every game unless facing someone knows the game way better than me(plenty of these guys I assure you). My Athena can hang with anyone, I could write a guide on Yuri, and Im not sure why you dislike Robert… he’s quick. Everyone else Im so-so but enjoying.
No I don’t…there were some other posts from that 100 page thread but it’s too hard to search for them. Anyway, I don’t like the characters you like…not a fan of Robert, Yuri, Takuma or Ralf.
I dont really like Takuma, but was interested in seeing how he worked because my brother has been using him. Ralf I do dig, but wanted to learn some tricks because I think mine is really 2 dimentional. Robert I understand you dont like, that’s fine. Yuri is awesome but I use her seldom.
Anyway, I like all the characters… thats why I was saying YOUR choice. Anyone who you have a straightforward approach with like how you broke down Kula and Athena, I’d love to hear. Sometimes all it takes for me to like a character is to learn one cool trick or trap I think I can use. Kula is one of my best/favorites right now because of that post
The more you like whoever, the better your explanations will be, too, because you will believe in the mix ups even more.
I guess a way to rephrase that would be: who are your personal favorite characters? And what is your approach to using them? You notice when we played I used a lot of Kula… the stuff u wrote about her made me love 'er… so perhaps that will happen w/ some of ur other favs.
Doing those dps and supers out of nowhere was the opposite of your “safe approach” to fighting, by the way…I will have to turtle you next time, unfortunately.
Writing up my gameplan for each one might take some time though…better to just watch me play. However, my favourites would have to be Athena, Billy, Kula, Maxima, Mai, Yamazaki, Iori, Vanessa, Kyo and possibly a few others. I actually love Angel and May Lee more than those but they are too hard to master…By the way, I lost your AIM (the one you had gave me doesn’t seem to have been the same as the one listed on this site).
Choi. He’s just too gay. jump, hop, super jump around with C. xover mixup into c.B, s.B string into confirm to rush super set up for chip throw. Fly around with d,u+D or b,f+A. Anti-air with hcbx2+A/C super. It’s how I play him. It’s pretty annoying. I’m not sure how pro’s play him. It can’t be much different since I don’t know of a single consistent solution to jumping around Choi except for teleporting away. In which case you will win if you’re ahead.
Daimon. Poke with sf. B, sf. D, sf. C hop D (it’s sort of like 3s Alex’s boot). if he turtles it’s perfect for dp+B throw. As is throwing when you wake up and running in poke/throw okizeme. sc.D df+C hit confirms to hcbf+C or hcbx2+C and combos of j.D. I’m not sure if hcfx2 + B still has huge auto guard for tricks. But I never use it. s. D for anti air, hcf+A and df+C work too. But sf. D is the best.
There’s pretty much how the pros play him from what I see, except they do not use hcbx2+P for anti-air (too slow startup to catch hops). b, f+A has too slow startup, so they use d,u+K. Sometimes I use d, uf+B when the opponent is near the corner, which creates some very nasty crossups…I also like spamming repeated jab, f+B attack strings which gets annoying.
I think it’s a little unfair to call what I do “random DPs and supers” because at that point against you, no game plan was working(plus it was online, blah blah). You’re just much better. Admittedly I do go for the psychic DP now and then, but any “random” super was just a super that didnt come out when i executed it, so my retarded fingers tried it again.
I have the hardest fucking time comboing to super in this game! It drives me nuts because I set it up quite well. You’d just never know. Is the timing that much different than 3s? I know it’s faster and stricter, but if Im terry(for example) and cant do crouch B’s into qcf qcf B super, what’s the point?
When I was talking about safety I was talking more about move recovery and making sure my attacks dont leave me open afterwards on hit or block, and being able to continue into new attacks. While some of the random DPs certainly screwed me, I admit, I love to jump around and see the guys in high level vids jumping around as well. I dont do it stupidly, it just appears that way when you’re up 8-0 lol
But anyway, if you have some pointers on overall game play to be “safer” and less “random” id love to hear it. You said you dont jump much… how can you be aggressive grounded and safely the entire time? Rolling gets obvious. What am I missin here?
Edit: 2 things i forgot… 1, would you maybe mind breaking down mai the way you did Kula? All I know for sure is that crouch C goes into the qcb C well, but thats about it lol 2, my aim is DoMeAFavorAndGFY
How to be safe on the ground: press the B button. If you need to jump, hop. Unless you’re playing choi. then mix your jump trajectory’s all the time. I hardly ever roll. I only do it to roll escape when I’m up for huge chip damage (aka choi’s chip throw).
For example you’re playing Kula. Kula’s s.B is an amazing poke. get in press it a few times and force him to block. Kula’s c.B is also an awesome poke. You can do c.B c.B (c.B) df+B (or whatever slide is). Then when you’re opponent learns to block you can now hop at him and do mix up hit confirm juggles. I think she uses j.D. The only other time I occasionaly jump is xover with Iori on wake.
hopping is one of the biggest differences between kof and SF and it’s the key that lets you be more aggressive. hops are way harder to anti-air and way harder to react to. so learn to hit late for combos. it’s one of your strongest tools usually.
cancels to super? I’ve never had trouble. The timing is different for each move. like o.Yashiro his C f+A cancel is like as soon as the f+A hits. so you have to buffer the hcbx2 straight after doing f+A and press A when you see the second hit. Whereas BC cancelling super with Kyo’s df+D is way tighter it’s practically at the end of the animation (and even after that you need to delay the super afterwards properly).
Yeah I absolutely adore hops. I know em as “small jumps” from CvS2. So the trick is to hit with them late, eh? do you find it best to combo into a standing heavy? crouching light? character dependant? Say im yuri and I just hit with a deep hop D…
I just got done playing Emil. Damn he wrecked me. Every time I had a good rush goin, he would CD. if it doesnt say “COUNTER” when you do that, is it still costing you a stock?
Those Kula B’s are damn good. Just about the only success I had against him was because of those things.
From my knowledge, a CD counter will say “counter” if they had buffered another move after that…but I could be wrong. There are some big things you can do with “counter” CD counters, but they cost a ton of stocks. For example, after doing a CD counter, cancel it with BC, then do DM/SDM. This costs 3-4 stocks (you waste two more stocks cancelling with BC, and possibly another if you do an SDM).
Well as I said, I consider almost any jump I do to be a risk, and just basically praying the opponent can’t counter in time. The best way to win online is to jump around, as it is difficult to block/counter with delay. However, most people would probably crouch C you offline. My main game depeneds on countering, or doing those ground mindgames with people like Iori, Clark, etc. My main use of jumping is to intersept opponent’s jumpins with jumps I know work well air to air (such as Clarks vertical hop+D, Iori’s hop D, Yashiro vertical hop CD, etc)
Well I have begun using her lately with some more organized strats. Mai is one of those people that I do jump alot with in the air, but for her air command moves rather than her jumpin normals. She has some of the best crossup tricks in the game, using her air d+D (butt move) or her air d+B. For example, when the opponent is waking up, you can jump over them and do her butt move. Depending how when you did it, they’d have to block backwards (since you jumped over them), but sometimes that move will crossup…so they will have to change their block direction again (to what it should have been before you even jumped behind them). These same tricks apply with her d+B, which makes her float in the air and curve around…sometimes crossing them up unexpectedly. Just remember though that the butt move (d+D) cannot be done from a hop, while the d+B can be done from either normal type of jump or a hop. I guess in that regard, if you see me just hop behind you on wakeup, it is usually expected I will do that d+B move to you. Sadly, if you do it right above them, they can’t do anything about, and cannot punish if they block (some may be able to command throw you though). The best way to counter that move is to immediately roll when you see the setup…you might be able to punish after that.
Her air qcb+P is a really high priority air move that is safe (even from command throws), as long as it doesn’t get blocked deep. After pulling out an unpunishable block string, jumping back and doing qcb+P immediately will trick most opponents since they would have likely tried to punish you, or atleast advance on the ground (it will also easily hit people that had tried to jump). Some good players will catch on and eventually use quick air to air attacks to hit you before you even get off the qcb+P (such as Clark jump D, Iori jump D, etc). However, since they’d have to guess if you will do that, if you don’t do it once, they will end up jump attacking the air, in which case you can ground combo them in the back when they land.
Cancelling a jump normal into her air moves is quite a good mixup as well. The air qcb+P is not an overhead, but is still decent to cancel into after a jump D or CD. A better thing to cancel into is the d+B, which is an overhead…or a jump D to air d+B cancel will require them to block twice and seems hard to react to…I"ve caught far too many people with this trick, the best players I’ve fought as well. It is safest to do that setup in the corner…it works anywhere but if your jump D didn’t hit deep, then your d+B will whiff.
For ground stuff, I mainly use her far A pokes. Her close C is very fast, and useful for a C, df+B(1 hit), qcb+C attack string. A good player will guard roll after your close C, making your df+B whiff and finish both hits (which means you’re screwed). I have yet to encounter someone who actually did that to me, so for now I will stick with using that attack string. In the corner, I will sometimes use A/C, f+B, cancel to air qcb+A or d+B. Her f+B by itself has very good recovery, good enough that you can actually combo into her qcfx2+P DM, or close C, or qcb+C. Her f+B though takes a while to actually hit, and looks quite obvious.
Her qcf+A projectile has very godo recovery, so it’s generally safe to throw those out. When the opponent is waking up, throwing out qcf+A so it hits them just as they get up, gives you enough time to run up for a combo. IF you do a move after the qcf+A makes contact, they will usually get hit anyway (from my experience), since they usually don’t expect her to recover that fast. So, after that qcf+A setup, you can use pretty much anything after this and be relativelyl safe since they are still in block stun (which means you can go for a jump D to her air mixups or into a ground attack string, or just toss qcb+C in their face, or perhaps go for an overhead f+B).
I can’t think of anything else at the moment…for combos, I use:
C, df+B(1 hit), qcb+C (as an attack string which sitll combos)
C, df+B(1 hit), hcf+B (does more damage than the above combo, but if they block the hcf+B, you’re dead)
C, df+B(1 hit), qcb hcf+K
C, df+B(1 hit), qcb+C, supercancel qcb hcf+K
C, df+B(1 hit), BC, Crouch C, df+B(1 hit), qcb+B, hcf+B(1 hit), qcb+C(1 hit), super cancel qcb hcf+P/AC
Her weak attacks can also be used to combo into df+B, but I still recommend using her C since it is really fast. Her crouch B is not cancellable.
It’s all character dependent, and what you’re strongest combo is. Like with Iori, I’ll do hop D then sc. C xx qcb+P x3 if it hits or qcf+P if it’s on block. With Yuri though, as little hopping as I’d be doing I know you can combo c.B c.A dp+C dp+C which is incredibly strong. safe easy hit confirm off a fast low. I suspect you could do that after a deep hop, but a close standing C or D probably combos into it as well. However, most of Yuri’s game involves running around and being gay. just keep 1/3 of a screen distance and use that air fireball. I saw an amazing vid of Yuri doing that once, but I can’t remember where. Yuri can also do fireball charge mixups. It doesn’t sound that strong on paper, but jesus I’ve fallen for so many delay tricks it’s retarded.
the lucky ones get stuff off crouching A or sc.B, a few of sc. D and the odd one has sf.C. Some characters cannot combo off their command normal (Iori’s and Kyo axe kick for example).
If you’re opponent is CD countering a lot, you need to be able to hit confirm a super. If you land a bar of super for every CD counter, you’re going to win.
I don’t know…I’ve seen some keepaway Yuris, but the majority I’ve seen involve doing alot of crouch B pressure (into the combo you mentioned, although you can actually land 2-3 Crouch B’s before going into the crouch A), and sweep into qcf+C if blocked (which is annoying since almost every time I try to roll after the sweep, the qcf+C hits…jumping out usually gets you hit too so it’s safest to just block all her stuff until she’s done).
Edit: If you’re good at hit confirming, you should be doing stand C to hcb+K with Iori, as it does more damage and knocks down just like the qcb+P’s. And on block, doing one or two qcb+A shouldn’t hurt either…and you can delay these for more mindgames.
Great stuff guys. Emil on the specifics, and callmeanewb on the general(with specific examples). Its helping immensely.
Also, I watched the overstruggle combo videos and that was pretty eye opening as to the general stuff most characters can do, like the little formula callmeanewb wrote.
Callmeanewb, when you say deep jumping attack into command normal, are you saying that, say with chris, you’d be more likely, off a deep landed jump D, to go right into the f+A? or would you do a C first when you land or crouch B, crouch A then the fwd+A?
I ask because I have having a hard time executing combos that Im quite consistant getting in similar SF situations. Specifically getting the special moves to come out. 2-in-1s, you know. Like if I run in with Athena and do a close C or crouch C, the psycho ball off the C should be a given should i want it. But I miss it often. It feels like im doing the special move cancels too slow, but then when I go to do them really fast, a lot of times I just kara the special and dont even see my crouch C lol bitch bitch, i know. i just wonder if KOF has some timing basics i should be aware of so then I can feel confident in my TWO HITTERS lol
Similarly, on that video a good combo given for both Chris’ was a crouch B, crouch A, fwd+A cancel to special move… standard Im sure, right? But how the hell is O. Chris supposed to do that quickly on reaction without accidentally throwing a fireball instead of a fwd A? A down move to a fwd move… if you have to go down B, A, neutral, fwd+A, it will make getting the special out, super impossible.
Also what do you tend to do when you are given a split second of a hole in an opponent’s offense as you block? Like, u get an opening, but its so fast that a standing C move for combo would certainly get stuffed, maybe even a crouching B move… just keep blocking? I find when i play good players all i can do is block or CD counter. And if thats just a fact of KOF life, I need to make sure my offense forces the same sort of lock when it’s my turn.
Edit: Oh, and if I want to hop for an attack, is it always better to do the “super” hop or whatever… when u go down then quick up fwd im getting a different hop, right? Its much faster but seems harder to make sure u hit a move deep. Both seem usable. Im confused…
Well both Chris’ would have that problem…guess it just takes practice, because I do not have the problem.
Well if you’re tired of having to block unpunishable guard strings, you will have to use guard rolls…to roll after blocking part of the attack string. It would be best to figure out what the most often used attack strings are used for each character, and from there, at which point to guard roll them. For example, take Mai’s C, df+B(1 hit), qcb+C. That df+B can only be cancelled on the first hit. If you guard roll right after the C, and she does the df+B, she won’t be able to cancel it (since you guard rolled), and she will be forced to complete both parts of the move (the two hits). So she’s basically screwed there. Same example with Vanessa’s hcf+P…on block, you can’t counter it, but if you guard roll behind her after the first hit of that move, you can punish.
The only move you can skip, like in a magic series, is the command move. with O.Yashiro (for an example since I don’t play Chris) you can do hop D sc.C f+A hcbf+A or you can drop the f+A but you cannot combo the f+A off the hop D, and even if you could the normal won’t cancel. KOF only lets you cancel a command normal if you cancelled into it (in other words f+A only cancels if you cancelled a sc.C with the f+A). There are a couple exceptions. A few characters can cancel command normals without cancelling into them (Chin is one I think), and you can always BC cancel shit.
In order to get the timing you cannot buffer cancels. I think that advice should help. If you do j. D s.C xx special. you have to input the special at the beginning of the s.C animation, just as you would if you did s.C xx special. I had this problem, I think you might be suffering the same thing. It’s just like doing MAX mode cancels you have to know the cancel timing and read buffer for each move (sort of like linking a 3 frame super off a 4 frame stun in 3s).
cancelling a crouching move to a forward command normal is practice. it’s nothing more than execution. if you’re lazy though, check to see if s.A combos off of c.B a lot of characters who can c.B c.A can also c.B s.A. The s.A might only combo from deeper however, or have less range. So be careful. Alternatively you may not need to cancel into the command normal and just go straight to the special.
lastly, to escape good block strings it’s a matter of character vs. character (i mean rolling and CDing always works but other options are character specific). If you have a dragon punch you can try that (each character has various levels of priority for it). you can also try teleporting (with athena or k prime or whomever). moves with the right autoguard and right frames may work (Ralf’s hcb+D or Maxima CD (I haven’t tested)). These options of course are not as safe as blocking. I recommend blocking and learning patience. If you are growing inpatient with long block strings you’re opponent has already won. Good block strings are just that though too good. Billy’s c.B f+A c.C f+A c.A is just that retardedly hard to through and you just gotta sit back and block it.
