Another Patch? Where's my mask?! El Fuerte Changes suggestion discussion

[Densuo]

Yeah I don’t mind his achilles heel being his wake up. But If I read properly, I should get out. Not get hit anyway.

[Densuo]

I’ll start with the Q-Bomb :

• I don’t think making a qcf Q-Bomb is the best solution. The problem with the Q-Bomb (in my opinion) is that you don’t get a hardknockdown on-hit. All of the offensive specials Fuerte has, he can follow-up with a vortex because he’s close to his opponent even if he’s quick standing, except for the Q-Bomb. Making it so bad at the risk/reward thing. As for the EX version, it has to be safer on block, not completely safe because of the counter-hit wall bounce.

Now for the rest :

• Slightly improve his j.HP hitbox so it can hit in guard when the opponent is blocking crossup, it whiffs a lot against some characters.

• Fix the unblockable forward mk overhead against ibuki.

• Make the U1 more viable : improve the damages 470 > 500 OR the distance 2.14 > 2.20.

• (Game System) Fix this rollback animation after some normal move on hit. It happens when you hit a certain spot (high) of the opponent’s hurtbox, don’t know how it really works, but it’s so freakin’ annoying when you start a RSF and your second cl.HP whiffs because of that. Especially on AE against Yun…

I will explain One of the reasons why Q-bomb as a QCF input may be better. It’s pretty obvious. Fuerte has to give up a button for the QBomb. He must give up throws, integral for defense or the most basic of punishes. He must give up Focus, Again integral for defense. Or he must give up Far/CR HK. two of his better normals. On top of this you must take an action to remove the charge safely. You must Guac, or jump needlessly. Doing this for the move would justify it being unsafe as you would no longer also be surrendering a button. Does that make better sense? Other characters with a charge button(s) like Cody or Balrog have some manner of invincibility on their’s. Fuerte does not. For all that Fuerte gives up, the move should either be more safe, or have an easier input.

Ultra 1 is already quite Viable. The problem with it is that Ultra 2 Outclasses it.

The Hit Reel animation for many characters is retarded. I do hope they fix it.

The jHP needs tweaking certainly. the damn thing whiffs sometimes when the opponent walks forward. It’s bad enough it’s range is dreadfully specific.

I would actually prefer it if Fuerte could get away from being a Vortex character. I want his mixups to be something that says “I mixed you up. Now you must guard my setup for damage” instead of OK! I mixed you up. I’m gonna mix you up again forever.

[ElNuno]

I will explain One of the reasons why Q-bomb as a QCF input may be better. It’s pretty obvious. Fuerte has to give up a button for the QBomb. He must give up throws, integral for defense or the most basic of punishes. He must give up Focus, Again integral for defense. Or he must give up Far/CR HK. two of his better normals. On top of this you must take an action to remove the charge safely. You must Guac, or jump needlessly. Doing this for the move would justify it being unsafe as you would no longer also be surrendering a button. Does that make better sense? Other characters with a charge button(s) like Cody or Balrog have some manner of invincibility on their’s. Fuerte does not. For all that Fuerte gives up, the move should either be more safe, or have an easier input.

Well I understand your position, I know all of this (I might didn’t understand what you said but you can safely realease the charge during a backdash, a lk… everything) but… The more you charge, a better version of the move you have right ? With a QCF input, I guess you get the lvl 3 with the HK version ? The light/medium version would be kinda useless, so you need to completely rework the move. And i’m afraid they will nerf the move BECAUSE of the qcf input making it a LOT easier to perform. That’s the only reason why i’m against the qcf input. So maybe let’s think about how the 4 versions should work with a qcf command.

[Shadow_Ace]

I have been here since birth even though im “retired” I may come back to the squared circle once again like a true luchadores

buffs

-Q bomb should be a QCF + P (it would be a level 2 charge, 3 for ex)

• Super damage restored for U2
  -should be able to ultra after an ex bomb wall bounce, I feel this “buff” has no reward to it except for distance
• Run into Q bomb would be sick
• C.mk x C.Hp is now linkable
• C.hp should be buffed as an AA
  -guac needs to be fixed, no reason it should trade with a normal

his normals could be better as well

nerfs

-blockstun reduced on q bomb making it easier to punish
-calamari slide being less safe on block
-stun increased by 50
-EX guac

[Densuo]

I will explain One of the reasons why Q-bomb as a QCF input may be better. It’s pretty obvious. Fuerte has to give up a button for the QBomb. He must give up throws, integral for defense or the most basic of punishes. He must give up Focus, Again integral for defense. Or he must give up Far/CR HK. two of his better normals. On top of this you must take an action to remove the charge safely. You must Guac, or jump needlessly. Doing this for the move would justify it being unsafe as you would no longer also be surrendering a button. Does that make better sense? Other characters with a charge button(s) like Cody or Balrog have some manner of invincibility on their’s. Fuerte does not. For all that Fuerte gives up, the move should either be more safe, or have an easier input.

Well I understand your position, I know all of this (I might didn’t understand what you said but you can safely realease the charge during a backdash, a lk… everything) but… The more you charge, a better version of the move you have right ? With a QCF input, I guess you get the lvl 3 with the HK version ? The light/medium version would be kinda useless, so you need to completely rework the move. And i’m afraid they will nerf the move BECAUSE of the qcf input making it a LOT easier to perform. That’s the only reason why i’m against the qcf input. So maybe let’s think about how the 4 versions should work with a qcf command.

Sure thing I will explain further.

Quesadilla Bomb is ass right now. You give up a button for a move that is unsafe and gives no advantage after landing it since the opponent can quick get up.

Furthermore Quesadilla Bomb Level 1 is unsafe on HIT.

By changing it to a QCF input we can have:

LK: Does not knockdown. Your option to combo into Super.
MK: Soft Knockdown. Faster recovery on hit. (similar to level 3 right now, your Positioning Option)
HK: Hard Knockdown. Normal recovery (Your Damage Option)
EX: Wall Bounce on hit. Faster recovery on hit. Startup invincibility.

This eliminates the stupid level 1 all together. Having it be an easier input without sacrificing a button is a fair trade off for a move that is unsafe on block which has no invincibility like Cody or Balrog.

[Pilgrim_Pud]

You wanna buff Bomb? Have it be combo-able off of more than ONE button. Have it combo from cr.forward. Allows for a hit confirm into something(jab, cr.short, cr.forward xx Bomb). It’s a knockdown if you have a level 2 or more charged and if you have stocks it could lead to a decent hit confirm combo of jab, cr.short, cr.forward xx Bomb(level 1), FADC, cr.jab, cr.short, cr.forward xx run (insert mix-up).

[Densuo]

You wanna buff Bomb? Have it be combo-able off of more than ONE button. Have it combo from cr.forward. Allows for a hit confirm into something(jab, cr.short, cr.forward xx Bomb). It’s a knockdown if you have a level 2 or more charged and if you have stocks it could lead to a decent hit confirm combo of jab, cr.short, cr.forward xx Bomb(level 1), FADC, cr.jab, cr.short, cr.forward xx run (insert mix-up).

This can be remedied simply by decreasing the start up of the move. It would definitely give us an option for getting people to the wall quickly.

This would probably solve the age old question Skisonic threw our way with asking when is it worth it to use Q-Bomb

[Densuo]

ground bounce fajita buster. comboable Ultra 1 lol. still funny

[X4DRIANX]

qbomb is good beats out alot of things and a good rsf ender

[Densuo]

qbomb is good beats out alot of things and a good rsf ender

It beats Dive Kicks at the right distance yeah. But it’s slow startup makes it where you may as well just EX Run through whatever it is or EX guac, or Run back tortilla etc.

It all comes back to what the old argument to it was… Why do Qbomb when there is better options.

Why do Qbomb ender on RSF when you can do run slide for an actual hard knockdown and follow up or bait something to stun.

The move simply put needs to be made more significant. It’s too much risk for no reward

[cdborrego]

• Q-Bomb must be safe on block.

• EX Guac must be safe again.

• We need combos: make c.LP link to c.MK, and make c.MK link to GorditaSobat.

• f.HP needs faster startup (this move is useless, better normals)

• Fix PropellerTortilla hitbox (e.g. Akuma c.MK evades this move)

• Fix TostadaPress hitbox (sometimes seems to be reduced with crouching characters)

• Fix Guacamole trade

• Fix CalamariSlide on wakeup (still)

[Pilgrim_Pud]

Elf goes up tomorrow right?

[Densuo]

Next week

CORRECTION. El Fuerte goes up Tommorow the 12th.

[Densuo]

A Japanese player named 705 tweeted that he wants jump fierce to force stand.

[Densuo]

Japanese buddy on twitter also likes the idea of q bomb combing from crmk

[Densuo]

Japanese bud states many fuerte players want stronger normals. He mentioned faster dash derivation as well.

[MannyFuerte]

Soooooooo about this whole “lets make fuerte better” thing…i say leave him the way he is and give me back my damn 500 damage ultra 2 back :’(

[Pilgrim_Pud]

I still think he’s solid as is. I’m just fearful CAPCOM will fuck him over again like they did in AE.

[Densuo]

I’ll be completely honest: I am expecting the exact thing that happened in Snap Da Condom On edition. A shitload of retarded nerfs, with a token buff. =\

Oh well. At least we have

[YoungFox]

Personally for Fuerte i think he needs his either his vanilla hitbox on tortilla or have it do 150 dmg again. on his ultra 2 make it a 3 frame ultra again, forget the damage nerf i rather have more utility and be able to punish most of rogs dash punches on block than an extra 50 dmg. also as is you can trigger an armor cancel with a normal and then cancel the normal into an srk to make a fuerte waste his ultra. make ex guac and light guac have the same recovery it did back in super. light guac was great to spam over projectiles and make fuerte slippery which matches his overall play style , in 2012 alot of times you can light guac over one fireball and then you are forced to block the 2nd one due to recovery which locks down fuerte. Ex guac should get its old recovery back because fuerte has very little wake up options which is fine but i feel having the ability to do a reverse 50/50 escape at the cost of meter (ex guac/ ex run) is a fair option for fuerte and will help him with some bad matchups. People complained about the old ex guac being hard to punish but the move is very easy to bait out and punish what those players where complaining about was their inability to option select it. having every escape option for a character get taken care of by an option select promotes a lack of analyzing your opponent and shouldnt really be promoted in a figher (imo). EX Qbomb should wall bounce on NH, this will make ex Qbomb an option to stop players jumping away at mid screen since that is a common and viable reaction to habanero dash. This change would help fuerte damagewise in some match ups without being overpowered since the move is -17 on block and every character can punish qbomb quite well. also in order to take this high damage gamble the fuerte player is sacrificing not only meter but two buttons thus limiting his options while he charges the ex q bomb which makes him heavily vulnerable. well that is my change list, i tried to validate all my changes so that capcom will take it serious. id appreciate any feedback before i submit it