I wasn’t sure if he was trolling so I didn’t even reply. TBH, I’m still not sure if trolling or not.
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Larry Elder convinced me that systemic racism doesn’t exist.
and Thomas Sowell convinced me that the wage gap doesn’t exist.
I’m actually having a bit of an existential crisis right now. I’ve always tried to be a centrist but I now realized I’ve been drinking the Democratic kool-aid. I was ideologically possessed. I’m trying to get away from idealogy as much as possible.
Should someone tell Jim that is just a standard 5x7 envelope Trump is holding?
The joke has to end at some point right?
Elders has merit in part, but in many cases the position that resolves into a fallacy or half truth. One example is the discussion about Black on Black crime. Ok, sure however the message is being conflated on two fronts. One is that a lot of the discussion devolves into this statement because it’s an easy target when loss of life is concerned. The response of LE to a situation and outcome are a separate issue to black on black crime. That’s a similar action as how mental health and gun control are mixed in together with gun violence but are two distinct issues with two very different solutions. The other is people kill who they are close to. The difference between black and white intraracial homicide rate is only about 7%. We don’t talk about it as if it’s an epidemic.
The racial construct in American policy is not “gone” yet. Overall, we are in a much better position to both address and remove these systems.
With Sowell I get his point and statistically speaking he’s right, but should it be looked at as a career death sentence because you want to start a family. In that same vein, he’s referencing (in the vid) advanced labor categories. I wonder if there was any study done showing comparisons between two people with the same qualifications and earning rate in lower level positions. I do think there are fundamental differences between jobs women take vs jobs men take, but to say there is no such thing (at this point) is a stretch.
I applaud you for looking beyond the blue, as no one should be tied to an ideological camp. Also take a look at views from sane people on the other side as well. Van Jones is a pretty solid dude and is willing to listen to the other side.
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Elders has merit in part, but in many cases the position that resolves into a fallacy or half truth.
Where’s the fallacy? Welfare, irresponsible parenting, promiscuousness, violence. I saw it all growing up in Long Beach. I happened to live on the nice side of the train tracks but I had friends on the other side of town and I saw a massive difference in the way their families functioned. I never saw any racism in my life except for a few crazy things my grandma would say when no one else was listening.
I do think there are fundamental differences between jobs women take vs jobs men take, but to say there is no such thing (at this point) is a stretch.
But according to the stats women who work the same job, work the same amount of hours get paid the same. If they don’t have children and focus on a career they make more than men at the same level. Where’s the gap?
I appreciate you taking my points seriously. I’m aware of Van Jones, I’ll definitely look into him more.
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Elders does a number of equivocations (e.g. Police Brutality = Black on Black Homicide), causal fallacies (e.g. blacks have a better route to the middle class because of affirmative action), correlation =/= causation (e.g. thoughts that fatherless homes mean you are going to be more likely to engage in criminal activity) and gross generalizations.
All the things you mentioned, I saw also. My dad was LE so I saw the system from a completely different vantage point in comparison to my peers. Many of the points referenced can happen in any community but the difference is access to resources. I am not one for saying that everyone should have equal outcome, but equal access should be better placed. What would you say was the difference on one side of the tracks vs. the other? Money, after school programs, parental household makeup, education level? It’s multi-faceted. There is not one thing that anyone can point to that we can say “a-ha, this is the answer”. Personally, I think education is the largest institutional factor that can make a difference (which school as it is today doesn’t delve into making your own thoughts from the information).
Also racism as you mention with your grandmother (personalized) is very different from what most others are talking about (institutionalized). In many cases, people are not talking about the same thing which is why no one gets the point.
The pay gap is something that I have to research a bit more about to be honest. I try to keep my mouth shut on issues I can’t speak well enough on.
All respect man. It’s good to listen to a position that differs from another person and have a civil discussion. Many discuss to be “right” not to gain a new or enhanced perspective. I keep pulse on people from both sides as it just makes better conversation.
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Elder correctly pointed out that more white people are killed by cops. There were around 1,146 fatal police shootings in 2015 and 50% of those killed were white, 27% were black.
What’s crazy is Don Lemon pointed out the problems of black America back in 2013. 72% of black children are born out of wedlock, compared to 29% of white people. That’s insane!
I myself grew up in a broken home. My father (who was white) was a drug addict and was in-and-out of prison most of my childhood. I was raised by my mother (african+english) and my white grandmother. Somehow they instilled in me a strong code of ethics, although even today at the age of 32 with a wife and a child I’m still trying to figure out how to be a man.
To me the biggest difference from my side of the tracks and the other was the parenting. My black friends told me about the beatings they received. I was shocked the first time I heard that! The other thing was the access to drugs, I had some black friends who stole weed from their uncles. And just a general disregard for education. They didn’t read books, they were late for class or skipped classes, always getting in arguments with teachers and make excuses. I remember when I was in 5th grade this little black girl got in a huge shouting match with a teacher over nothing really, it was insane! All the other kids in the class just sat in awe with their jaws hanging open lol.
Never said Elders was completely wrong. It’s that a fair bit of what he says isn’t all the truth. Again, police incidents are not the same as intraracial homicide. That stat is true on a national level.
Another interesting statistic is enforcement action vs warnings. That was a pretty interesting debate on collecting the information when I worked in the Public Safety.
I can’t say that having a two parent home is the magic bullet, but it does help.
Didn’t you site a stat that interracial violence was around 7%? Seems to me that number would be much higher if racially motivated violence was as widespread as Democrats have been implying over the years.
BTW can you point to any specific laws that actually promote racism? All I can find are the opposite: anti-discrimination laws, affirmative action, welfare.
I’m definitely willing to reconsider my position if you point me to some evidence to the contrary.
Intraracial (homogeneous) groups were what I was referring to. Didn’t look the number up for interracial as it wasn’t part of the conversation at that time.
As far as policy goes, there are not laws that are “overtly” discriminate. That does not mean that the lasting effects of those policies are not there.
Since we are in the realm of law and justice, Vox did an article citing several studies evaluating sentencing of federal crimes.
Can a judge sentence harder, sure. There is no policy in place other than the range of what can be offered. However, this is not a good look.
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Whites are a high population here in the USA… so 50% in 2015 can be a small number because of the population count. Blacks are 13% in population, so 27% out of that is high.
Problem is that 70% of blacks (especially in NYC) sort of ask for it. One time when I was in NJ, some black teen who had an expired drivers license was told to just comply by stepping out of the car. The dumb ass was aggressively trying to wrestle his way out, which forced the cops to also get rough so that they can restrain him (this shit is common, just check youtube vids).
If you don’t want problems with the cops then don’t fight them… comply for now, especially when it’s your fault. It’s hard to take sides on debates like these because if you’ve lived in NYC or LA or any major city, you do get skeptical if the cop was a racist asshole because of the countless examples of the black guy acting like a dumb thug life wannabe who wasn’t following orders. Go to all black schools and check out how they treat their teachers, so based on that alone it really is hard to take sides here.
OBTW: a bit out of topic. I saw Cenk Ugyr, the founder of the dumbest SJW show “The Young Turks”. I wanted to run to his face and tell him how fucking dumb he is. It is beyond me why these idiots haven’t been banned from making videos or attempting social/politic talk. fuck them.
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Well, technically more whites are on welfare than minorities. Though per capita, hispanics and blacks are more reliant on it than whites. At least according to pew research.
I would like to say that blacks don’t ask for it. There have been many examples coming forward recently where a black teen or young adult is secretly recording the cops saying that they’ll plant a gun on him if he doesn’t give up another teen name for some crime. Or a cop pulling someone over “because he failed to signal he was turning within 100 feet”, only to come back and say that he pulled him over because “he has tree residue on the car”. Sadly there are cops out there purposefully trying to nab some individuals whether they broke the law or not.
But I would be remiss if I also didn’t mention the complete lack of respect for authority figures that some individuals exhibit within the black community. From teachers, cops, elected officials to even their own parents. When no one respects the other side, it is difficult to make any real progress.
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There is no doubt that there are a handful of incidents in where it really is the cop but at the same time a good amount of blacks really do escalate the shit too much. You have to ask other minorities in dense/mixed cities like NYC… even they have their reservations when they see a group of black teens walking up the street.
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Again if there is a bias towards a group (both with police interaction and with police response) you don’t get anywhere.
To say that some people ask for that kind of response is a bit egregious. For a person that is to be trained to de-escalate a situation, this outcomes across the board should not be an issue. The agency I worked for gave a full day training for “fair and impartial policing”. Bias exists in everyone, but a better job needs to be done to not act on them.
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well, this thread continues to deliver by taking an even more hilarious turn.
agreed and ill-informed responses come with the territory on srk. this is what happens when you have a thread of youtube educated clowns exposing themselves by speaking on any number of topics in which their grasp is tenuous at best. it’s no wonder many of these same dudes got caught up in that gamer gate nonsense. speaking of clowns who thinks they should be able to say or do dumb shit free of criticism or consequence. did anyone read the secret memo trump’s lawyers wrote to mueller about why their “innocent” client can’t submit to a subpoena. lol…it’s quite a doozy.
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Right, but don’t black people have any responsibility to not escalate/resist? How about not break the law in the first place? Within the black community it seems to be a badge of honor to ‘stick it to the man’.
So what are peoples guesses as to whats happened to Melania? Her only tweet was clearly written by Trump or a 3rd grader soooo…
Maybe spousal abuse?
Seriously odd for a first lady to go MIA for 30 days with not even a 3 second video or something… More off was when Trump said Melania was in the window a little while back when clearly she was not.
Yeah that letter was uuuuuuutterly fascinating. I’m looking forward to hearing how that goes. The idea that you even make that argument is amazing. That seems like nothing the founders would ever have wanted, nor what policy would be intended to support.
The Melania thing is baffling. What’s she in recovery from? When will she next show up in public? Supposedly she’s been seen… why the big weirdness?
“Bill Clinton says Obama got better media coverage in part because of his race”
I thought they were on the same side???