Theory Viper is like the new Chuck Norris on the internet.
Yep, it’s flashy as fuck, bad ass, and totally indestructible (except against Trish, Zero, Phoenix, and maybe Akuma).
However, a merely competent Viper is still ridiculous.
No disrespect to you FlyingVe but I’m just going to stop quoting you and your Seismo worship and theory Viper. I know Viper has other tools so bring them up instead of omgseismo. I still think Ammy vs. Viper is anywhere from 5-5 to 4-6.
You don’t have to tell me about the Viper board. I love her as a character so I read through the thread occasionally. When I actually saw what you guys gave some of the characters, I was surprised you guys didn’t just put 10-0 across the board and left it at that. 7.5-2.5 matchup with the tools Ammy has? I thought I was reading a Dark Phoenix thread. No doubt that a competent Viper is fun to watch and ridiculous but I think you guys are riding Theory Viper right into Actual Viper. I will definitely be testing move interactions between these two when I get the chance.
Whoa. Mediocre air dash? It takes Ammy from one side of the screen with the ability to block and is cancelled with any attack. That thing is anything but mediocre.
With Dormammu, if they guess wrong with Purification or Dark Hole, Ammy can cover a great distance and get in his face. Since the Flame Carpet is so annoying, I take note of where it is and usually launcher Dormammu ASAP to avoid comboing into it if I get a clean hit. It’s certainly not Ammy’s best matchup but it’s playable.
I dunno. Fireworks L (what the counter is called) works pretty well against Trish since my Trish competition prefer to dive kick down instead of just dropping to the ground. Okami Shuffle makes her drop down and clears all the traps since Fire is 95% fullscreen and Ice and Lightning pelt the ground. Also, Okami Shuffle doesn’t need to put Ammy in a good position for mix-ups, it just needs to get her close. Trish vs. Ammy is probably close to 5-5. Peekaboo is still annoying. I got one particular friend who’s good at predicting when I’m going to j.H a trap and nails me with Maximum Voltage.
I can’t believe I didn’t talk about this match-up.
Akuma: I’m gonna start off by saying this match-up is in Ammy’s favor. The BIG problem is that 90% of the time, he’s the anchor and he’s packing major heat. Make one mistake and Ammy loses more than half her health. Do the same against a person that knows Akuma combos and she is down. Tatsu spam can be a pain to deal with. Sword is great here and X-factor is great for surviving a purple sideways waterfall. Fun thing to do here is to use Glaive Stab to bait out the beam and cancel into Head Charge L/M. From there, vine over and chop off his stanky feet.
when it comes to rush down it is kinda mediocre if you think about it, its pretty slow and gives your opponent more time to react to it and unlike spiderman and spencer’s similar moves it doesnt act as a projectile to pin them down while you’re dashing in. Ammy’s air dash going a long distance and allowing you to block is definitely great but when it comes to rushdown speed is more important imo.
Also think about it like this, after dormammu throws out flame carpet most ammy players will just either normal or super jump and air dash. If they super jump you can interrupt them with purifications and even if one ends up whiffing its very unlikely that you’ll get punished for it when they’re that high up, and you always have the option to just dash across the flame carpet if they go over you. If they normal jump you can just use st.M, st.H, cr,M or S to interrupt the air dash and even if they block they will still fall onto the carpet and give you enough time to go for mix ups or reset the situation. This works pretty well because as long as you have FC out you know the ammy player cant press any buttons during the air dash until they get past you, which makes it way easier to interrupt with normals/air throws.
Im not saying that the match up is like 8-2 but its still in dorm’s favor imo.
NeoArtisan, have you fought many Glaive users? Because Glaive is imo much better against Dormammu than Reflector, and I doubt anyone would fail to pick up a combo if you whiffed a Purification on their air dash in Glaive stance.
honestly cant say that i have, although i dont see how the glaive helps more against zoners so how would it help against dormammu? is it because of the glaive dive?
It’s really the improved reach more than anything else, allows you to hit people from farther away and make slow advances a bit more threatening. Solar Flare isn’t particularly useful against Dormammu, nothing to really reflect since the only reflectable move goes over Ammy anyway so Dormammus shouldn’t be throwing it out, but being able to cancel deep swings into M or H thunder edge to air dash in is much stronger for establishing a mid-distance game against Dorm. It also gives her more immediate mixup after an Okami Shuffle knockdown with run up instant overhead. And Glaive j.H is a much better thing to threaten with after a deep air dash than anything Reflector has.
Specifically, I don’t feel that Reflector’s unique tools are as useful against Dorm as against many other zoning characters, but Glaive’s tools work as effectively against Dorm as against anyone else.
Vs. Dormmammu you have to get him to block an asset that will pin him down long enough to get into range with the glave. If they are quick, Akuma’s Tatsu will let you in, or if they are playing a bit lame or like to jump towards you Arthurs golden Armored firebottle toss can let you in as well.
I’m finding it’s a lot rougher to get in on more keep away characters especially in Ultimate since you can’t block during an air dash (although thankfully you can cancel but you need pretty quick reactions). Things like Deadpool or Chris’s guns are harder to avoid, and Gimlet and Spell of Ashanti are the world’s biggest pain in the ass especially when you consider how low her health is.
Also I think Rocket Raccoon can be a bad match up if Raccoon has the right assists. Between burrow, his air mobility, traps out the ass, and the difficulty it is to combo on his tiny body he could keep Ammy out pretty easily. I don’t have much experience against RR but on paper it doesn’t seem that good.
…Or you could get Ammy to spin the little disc on her back and play Pong with the other guy’s projectiles.
Deadpool has more options now but if he’s zoning, he’s getting nowhere. Chris still loses in the hardest way against her. Jump Magnums? I’ll take the free wall bounce off of your projectile and add 150k damage to the start of my combo, thanks.
RR kinda loses to glaive st. H swatting him down from the sky. He’s not that difficult to combo anyway. Okami Shuffle eats him alive since he has no way to stop it effectively from a distance. Plus if he’s in the air, Ammy can just grab him like she does with every character that has no business being in the air.
Meter gain is ass. Hawkeye and Strange literally only have Gimlet and Reading Rainbow hyper to stop her. When they run out of meter, she’s on that ass. Hawkeye doesn’t enjoy being frozen or poisoned by his own arrows. Strange has issues with people in his face.
I find the projectile disc game to be a real tricky one, and it rarely works for longer than a few seconds, especially if she’s on her own.
RR can just block the fire and teleport to the other side to punish okami shuffle.
You could say that hawkeye only has gimlet. But you must realize that gimlet is an extremely powerful tool and people will put him second if they’re smart so he can take complete advantage of it. It WILL punish any reflector counters and with my team dante/hawkeye/virgil I will DHC into devil trigger for a huge unscaled combo. I’d say it’s hard for ammy to do anything really. Get on that ass and don’t let go because if you give hawkeye any space you’ll be kicking yourself as you inch your way back in.
Nemesis/big characters under laggy conditions…
On a more relevant note, it almost seems like Firebrand could cause problems. He seems to be a character that can just avoid the ground action completely, maybe more so than any other flyer. This is just speculation though, since I haven’t played a decent one.
I don’t actually know anything about Rocket Raccoon! How does he go about punishing OS after the teleport?
I assume you’re referring to the ability to tech throws during moves. In which case I wouldn’t really know. I’m only mildly familiar with his tools. In the short time when I messed around with him when the game came out I couldn’t really figure out what a good team with him would look like so I dropped him. I have no doubt that I’ll return to him eventually. H burrow is too good lol.
Now that I think of it. RR might be able to punish with a bear trap depending on height. It gives a ground bounce on airborne opponents. From there you can go into the boulder trap loop. Perhaps higher up he could punish with a log trap towards the end of ice, which gives a wall bounce.
Edit: The street fighter player in me keeps thinking OS refers to Option Select lol. Much of what I said still holds true though to answer the question.
I don’t have the guide with me so I don’t know the recovery from Tunnel Rat L/M and if he has enough time to throw her (everything else seems slow). Depending on how fast/slow it is, he might end up popping out to get hit by the ice. Of course, this also means that you threw out a random Okami Shuffle while RR was on the ground. Reacting to RR’s zoning to throw an Okami Shuffle isn’t exactly tough.
I’m very aware that Hawkeye’s Gimlet is ridiculously powerful (I love Hawkeye as well). The more meter he has, the harder it gets for anyone to get in. However, she ducks all ground arrows except the net which has a larger hitbox IIRC. The recovery on his arrows aren’t exactly stellar. He pretty much has to time trick shots correctly to get any type of zoning done against her. He can’t shoot DP arrows since that’s a free dash in. Gimlet doesn’t have invincibility either (I’ll be testing out to see if he can react to OS with Gimlet if he’s in the middle of an attack). When he’s out of meter, he’s dead meat.
God forbid Vale of Mist is active.
If he likes to Bon Voyage or throw attacks from the air to find openings, use the high counter.
If he likes to use Spitfire (perhaps to cover his approach for Bon Voyage or more aerial pokes), reflecting it at a certain angle so the fireball hits the counter stuffs anything he tries to follow up with. st. H and j.H also keeps him honest.
There’s definitely more to the matchup and Firebrand can attack on the air and the ground but those are the approaches I see the most from Firebrand.
Burrow actually has decent recovery but that’s besides the point. Ice doesn’t hit behind amaterasu, RR is safe on a behind burrow regardless of recovery or what have you. I’m sorry but you just made it sound like RR can’t do anything about it, which is far from the truth.
I had overlooked the fact that ammy ducks under most of the special arrows. However I doubt she ducks under a well aimed st. H, which has very little recovery and is cancel-able at any time by pressing S to stop. It’s also special cancel-able if you see it’s going to hit. My statements were more aimed at the way you made out gimlet to sound like it was something hawkeye players wouldn’t be going for or building their team around anyways. I don’t know why you mentioned that gimlet has no invincibility.
Firebrand seems to me to be a character like trish. In that I mean that amaterasu does much much better with meter for okami shuffle to punish air specials.
I have a friend who plays Firebrand pretty decently and I feel that matchup to be pretty great for me actually! If there’s an opening for you to super jump he’s easy to snipe at with glaive dive > reflector cancels, and if you get on a real offensive he doesn’t have any way to deal with glaive j.:h:. And then there’s the counter…
People tend to tell me that. I should be more detailed in explaining stuff but that only makes my walls of text more wall-like. 
Okami Shuffle’s area of impact is based on where the action is (the screen positioning), not where Ammy is. It all depends on where or not the ice triggers before or after someone gets out of range. RR could very well get out of range of ice, I’m just not too sure. I’m more interested in sniping RR when he commits to a move anyway, like most keepaway characters (that don’t have an option for punishing).
Most people tend to overreact to how powerful Gimlet is, which is why I bring up its lack of invincibility. I’ve stuffed and had it stuffed in the heat of battle before. Is it ridiculously powerful? Hell yeah but it’s not as unbeatable as people make it sound.
Ever since I’ve played Ammy, I’ve enjoyed testing out the interactions between her counters, height and hypers against other moves. I’m thinking about making a thread to house all of the interactions I’ve tested for easy reference. I’ll be doing most of my testing when classes end. I’d like feedback as well and any interactions you’ve discovered to make my job easier. So far I’ve tested most of the interactions from: Vergil, Firebrand, Hawkeye, Viper, Strider, Zero, Phoenix Wright and a few more I can’t remember.
I treat Firebrand like a much more aggressive Trish but with a heavier focus at normal jump height. After watching Chris G maneuver his Ammy, I feel that she has a much better super jump game than she does before.
Maybe I had the wrong impression of Firebrand then? (Or people are playing him wrong?). I kinda associate fast+mediocre damage+air mobility with a reactive character. Maybe like Adon… (Who was IIRC not top tier because of no amazing matchups, but nothing under 50%).
Also I’m not sure all of the above scenarios apply. Command swooping should dodge air, using the :h: fireball rolls on the ground, which I don’t think can be reflected. Also, trying to counter crossups doesn’t work too well for me…