I’m no expert. But my understanding is delayed wake up adds 11 frames.
fs.lp is 10 frames total. So it might add roughly the right amount of frames for the same set ups to work on DWU.
But if he does the fs.lp first he isn’t reacting to the “technical” sign. He’s making a read.
As you say, the preference would be to be able to use a set up that can be adjusted based on seeing the technical sign. E.g. after f.throw we take one dash, see the technical sign, then add the fs.lp (10 frames…wish it was 11!) and continue the set up.
Measured setups on hard knockdowns are mostly out. That’s the entire purpose behind DWU. Sure, you are going to be able to cobble together crude setup forks based on what opponents do, but the point is that you can’t commit to a measured and reliable one out of the gate due to the two-choice your opponent has (with respect to wakeup) and that is completely discounting their wake-up options (DP, backdashes, focus back/forward, Supers, Ultras, etc), which again invokes an array of timings and so forth AND can make your attack choices backed with an OS very risky.
One way of looking at things is to perhaps compare it to your OS options against a downed Bison. You have a few, but he also has a wide array of escape options with no single OS Akuma commits to being effective against all of his escape options, offensive or otherwise.
In my opinion, as soon as you call “reactions” into a setup, the measured component of it goes out the door which brings into question its reliability. As a few have mentioned above, perhaps the better approach is to quite simply educate yourself on your opponent’s tendencies and make some old fashioned reads. The irony is that it is going to be in our opponent’s interest to mix DWU with regular wake-up to completely muddle with Akuma’s timings. Probably the one thing to Akuma’s advantage is that if he were to apply a standard measured wakeup and the opponent delays, at the very least (provided you don’t OS your lead-in attack for example) is that we’ll typically still be placed in an advantageous position ripe to continue pressure. This definitely appears to be the case with a lot of Ultra footage I have seen so far when Akuma players simply play 2012 style. If they don’t DWU, neat - they continue with our usual bullshit. If they DO DWU, (very) generally speaking a standard pressure/counterhit in-their-face approach begins.
The fs.lp whiff seems to be workable to an extent (and likely character specific) to cover DWU/regular wakeup, but until we have the game in our hands how applicable/reliable this is and against what characters remains largely unknown. Because wakeup is (sans a few odd character specific scenarios) a lock with respect to the required timings in 2012; setups are reliable and when backed with a suitable OS, perfect for maintaining momentum. That lock is gone in Ultra so the whole concept of a setup stemming from a hard knockdown becomes fuzzy.
I myself have only just begun to seriously do my homework. Hence set ups are new to me. I always played for fun. But I want to get better. That’s why I’m here!
“Fuzzy” I’m sure is right. But in some situations at least, like the large number of frames associated with a f.throw, make me believe there’s a genuine opportunity to react to the “technical” sign.
For instance I’m currently using the double dash set up after forward throw. During the double dash I should be able to see the technical sign, then perhaps add the 11 frames with a fs.lp (actually 9 frames) or a cr.lp (11 frames - although I have no idea if there are extra frames in the crouching motion…?). Anyway I hope over time we discover some sort of set ups that can be changed based on reaction to the technical sign. Not sure if this will be possible from a sweep hard knockdown but excited to find out…
Another pressing question is how safe we will be if we go for a non delayed flip, they DWU and we hit the air. We should be safe with palm but I dunno about the kick
Yeah man. I’m glad he got buffs to his footsies, stun, and damage output because mAtch ups like Guile, Rose and Chun Li are about to take on a whole new complexion. The days of “these characters have strong ground games, but once we knock them down they’re done” are over.
Question: Did they remove the sweep to demon cancel nerf? It wasn’t noted at all in that balance change video. I know they have reverted other nerfs for some characters like Yuns command grab range.
First Impressions about 20 mins with the game. (I had to go to work T-T).
Red Focus Test.
Akuma’s red focus from a fierce xx fireball R.FADC into Ultra scales it back 63% resulting in 480 on average (491 max. Not sure why that is yet).
Akuma can RFC (red focus crumple) from his Cs.HP, Fs.HP, fireball and HP shoryuken, HK tatsu, MP shoryuken, MK tatsu,(first hit only).
Cl.St.HP xx fireball xx RFC - AND - F.St.HP xx fireball RFC doesn’t seem to work midscreen. Hell I tried Hugo. (Please tell if you can find something different.)
The only mid screen combo I got to work into a RFC is Fs.HK xx HP shoryuken (first hit only) RFC.
Also Cr.MP into Cs.MK works from a pretty decent distance. Like mid-screen I am so using that for my BNB is going to be Cr.MP, Cs.MK xx LK tatsu (291) , HP Shoryu rather than cr.LP, Cs.HP, LK tatsu, HP Shoryu (281) because I don’t have to think about whether they are crouching or not and if Cs.MK is blocked it’s safe and pushes Akuma about max range cr.MK distance. So its a better confirm combo although It’s less stun.
When I was testing it before, I found most of the situations you can RFC you can also just do the normal U2 combos for similar damage and less meter. So unless you are rocking U1 in a specific match up, U2 tends to be a better option overall.
THIS I like. Can you do it on reaction? My only concern is if they do not FADC. Will they hit you on their second hit of their DP? Or can you literally react to the dash?
General Akuma question. But why do so many people start their combos with c.lp instead of c.lk? C.lk hits low while c.lp doesn’t…
I’m at work. Can’t wait to get home and play this. What about c.lk, c.lp, cs.mk, lk.tatsu, hp.dp? Any idea what the damage/stun is?
Also, general question about the game. I know there’s no trials but is the online training mode included? If so, maybe some of you friendly chaps can help me level up!
If its an actual combo then it doesn’t matter if its mid/low/high, just trying to get the best hit confirm for max damage. In previous versions you couldn’t always react with a raw fierce into tatsu after landing a jump in so you would do cr.lp cl.hp > lk. tatsu for max damage. If its a block string THEN you would want to go low.
Damage stun on cr.lk cr.lp cl.mk > lk.tatsu hp.srk is 245/305.
There is online training mode but I haven’t tried it yet. All Ive seen is its a 2 player lobby but I don’t know if its functions the same as normal training mode with the 2nd player controlling the other character.