If gouki can get the jump in then that would be j.hp, cr.hp, lk tatsu, lp reset, KKZ. I’d say j.hk, st.hk, SGS but that is very tricky to space properly. Otherwise if you don’t have the time then maybe a plain old grounded KKZ reset would do the trick.
The thing is that two SA1 combo’s can do more damage than any of those so you might want to go for an SA1 then demon flip mixup into SA1.
Super whiff? If you mean most damaging punishment, I’d say:
neutral jump mp, cr.mp (or mk), lk tatsu, lp xx KKZ
though you probably need to parry something to be at the right position to be able to jump, and it also probably doesn’t work with char/SA. Forget this jump to have the second best punishment.
edit: nomorefunland beat me.
Though, I’m pretty sure j.mp followed by cr.mk/mp gives more damages than hp and hp
Thanks guys, I was actually lookin for meterless. Sorry should have clarified.
(jump hp), crouch/close hp x lk tatsu, hp shoryuken.
the close or crouching hp won’t work on oro; use mk/mp.
if you parry a shoryu or something and your opponent is way up you can do the kuroda special. actually if you’re sick you can get that on a lot of grounded chars, too.
Interesting. I’ll have to check it out but I’m sure you know whats up. Less damage scaling or something?
Yep, damage scaling on KKZ i guess, even though it’s supposedly a reset.
Anyway, for less than 10pts more damages iirc, i always go for the hp/hp combo as it’s easier.
Or, depending on char opp, a sexy j.hp, hp, lk tatsu, cr.lp dash under kara demon, specially against Urien or Dudley… (but it’s a mindfuck tentative, not a combo)
Is there any difference between empty canceling a demon flip punch from a demon flip kick?
Also empty kick has instant recovery right?
Edit: What is the recovery for a teleport (instant startup right)? Don’t see it listed on your site ESN
almost instant afaik. You might go years and years before you see a great Gouki use the punch, though it is an overheard. Empty demon flip can be mixed up with other options and the higher you press kick the more at a disadvantage you will be.
It’s…bad.
9 frames (checkable with hitboxes)
Thx for pointing it out. Fixed.
So I’ve been using cl.hk against Urien when he wakes up sometimes and it seems to stuff a few of his options. I saw TK use this so I tried it and it works alright as an option. Stuffs headbutt and the second hit bonks him if he is crouching/doing a slowish crouch move.
Can you link anything off that second hit of cl.hk? It would be so very wonderful if I could tack an SA1 onto that second hit. I doubt it but figured I’d ask.
Also do you guys think that Gouki’s cl.hk would stuff Urien’s cl.hk?
Another kinda original thing I’ve seen TK use is st.lk followed by fr.hp block string thingy. He had Urien in the corner when I saw this but it seemed to lock him down well.
Ya no chance of doing anything after cl.RH. It’s -4 on hit lol, and 0 on crouching hit. I’ve been trying to use this move a little more often myself. Good damage, hits overhead and a good amount of stun. I feel like I’m surprised all the time by all the moves that get stuffed by cl.RH
Uriens rh moves his hitbox back so not sure if that would work too well. Might make your far rh come out.
The stun on a 2 hit cl.RH is a little ridiculous
how should I approach ken…does gouki have any good pokes against him?
not really. far mk is a good anti c.mk poke, but knowing how to use your common good shoto pokes is most important. also keep in the mind the narrow range between outside c.mk and outside sweep, Ken also has his standing rh which is a powerful tool here while you just have sweep.
I like the test the waters with c.mk x hadou, or fp x hadou against Ken players. Gouki’s hadou seems slightly faster than other shotos, and if Ken doesn’t parry it you can be pretty safe after this. It’s a nice way to push Ken towards the corner, build a little meter, and if it hits its decent damage.
i never ask questions here but:
How do you stop 12?
I’m usually successful when I shut down his air game as much as possible. Jumping normals (into SA1 maybe), niggly little jump back air fb, nicely spaced air tatsu, AA SA1/srk>SA1 if you can time it right as he is falling. Also I try to get out of the way when he finally gets his air pressure going. Reset the spacing then continue to frustrate his movement. On his wake up you have a huge advantage obviously. I love seeing a 12 get to the point where he’s afraid to jump. Grounded he doesn’t have many damage options outside of a few close range super confirms.
But I’ve never played someone like Yamazaki (sp?).
Also here is some great info that Pherai-sama provided me a while ago:
[INDENT=1]Well, first off, if the 12 player isn’t doing SGGK or anything like that, I’d crouch tech every time you suspect a throw and cancel it into tatsumaki. Well maybe not everytime, but give that a shot cause worst case scenario you’ll just get thrown anyway.[/INDENT]
[INDENT=1] [/INDENT]
[INDENT=1]I’d also try to pay attention to when you can afford to try a random srk. 12 is like a fly and will just force you to block and tech all day if you let him sometimes. Keep sa1’s stocked to use an anti air against him and try to hit him in the air with tatsumaki too.[/INDENT]
EDIT: just read this again after a while and realized there is some crossover in our advice :smokin:
What Gouki players do I need to watch that have a very strong ground game? I havent really payed attention much to goukis throughout all my watching, but I’ve caught on to a few things.
its mostly from me being a Chun player, I hate getting in the habit of jumping (makoto always fucks me up in this regard). Need more knowledge on how his ground game works.
There’s a lot!
Nomoto is an older player who doesn’t play much anymore, but his style wasn’t quite as flashy as other Gouki players. Mostly just straight up strong fundamentals.
Match is kind of the gold standard for the complete Gouki player. He will always be good.
Uraken is doesn’t really stay on the ground, but I think he is very creative on the ground. He showed me the quality of Gouki’s far FP.
That should get you started!
Ok, Im loving Match’s style, very solid may have to change my color lol. One more quick question since Im not at the cade or my house. I know cr. strong is cancelable, but when its cr. strong>sa1 is it linked or canceled?