Glad it helped. Always good to look at all possibilities for a mod
This thread’s still alive? Been revived? LOL
What is the main lesson here, boys and girls? Ascii/Agetec joystick parts = near-JLF clones!
IMHO, unless you’re like me and prefer Seimitsu sticks (LS-32-01 and LS-40-01 with SS Mounting plate are recommended), you’re better off doing a light mod like Darksakul suggests (JLF pivot, replacement spring).
A mod doesn’t have to be a total case-gutting if the original parts are in decent shape and still functional.
People still use 15-year-old Namco sticks with light replacements – new pivots, replacement springs, new joystick switches, and compatible replacement pushbutton microswitches – but otherwise keep the arcade sticks close to OEM/stock condition.
There are many older or contemporary joysticks to the Agetec era where it’s just not practical to rip out the original stick and buttons because of space constraints. Just peek at threads about the pre-HRAP Hori joysticks (Saturn SS and PS1 PS joysticks) and Ascii SS/PS joysticks… you basically can’t fit a lot of modern arcade parts into those cases because of height restrictions. Ditto for many of the PS/Dreamcast Neo Geo arcade stick clones.
Height relaxation that allows most Japanese arcade parts to fit and case design style is why I think the Agetec is a popular mod case project. Even at $50, it’s not that bad an investment. You’ll easily spend at least twice as much for a quality MDF case in the final analysis and there are inferior cases (IMHO) that cost upwards of twice as much as a decently-priced Agetec auction ($50). I wouldn’t pay over $50 for an Agetec unless I could be guaranteed the joystick was in very good condition… I’ve seen rougher-condition Namco joysticks that sold for higher than what I paid for my Agetecs, and even my worst condition Agetec was in better shape than at least half the Namco joysticks I’ve seen.
Trust me on this… Cutting plastic off the Agetec case is NOT fun… Whether you do it with a Dremel rotary cutter (look forward to noxious gas emissions from heated plastic!) OR cut it off with utility knife and razor blade, the work is involved.
There’s no two ways about it. An extensive Agetec mod job (total Agetec part swap-out for arcade parts) ranks at least an 8 on difficulty level.
My recent third Agetec case mod WILL be my last! Blade cuts are worse than solder burns. Solder burns hurt less in the long run!
Does the LS-32 spring give it a more tighter feel than the JLF spring?
http://slagcoin.com/joystick/attributes_brands.html
[edit - forgot that link doesn’t answers your question]
No the LS-32 spring gives a lighter feel if used to replace the JLF spring.
But the 2 springs can be combined to give a tighter feel.
The optical boards will not fit the Agetec, for the simple reason that when looking from underneath both agetec and sanwa jlf sticks, the microswitches are placed in reverse directions: the jlf has its microswitches in clockwise arrangement, the agetec is counterclockwise, also the rounded corners of the agetec microswitch slots on the body have rounded corners which means that if you placed the flash or toodles boards upside down ( which would need to have the harness rewired accordingly), the sharp corners of the black plastic casing of the optical boards would not fit and would need to be modified , not to mention the solder points that would face the restrictor of the agetec unlike those of a jlf pcb which would point outwards (there are cutouts in the agetec restrictor specifically placed for the solder points of an upside down JLF pcb). Sanwa jlf copycat generic sticks will take the flash1 or toodles, but are not worth being assembled with these boards, the generics in question are pure crap and rival in no manner the durable and trustworthy agetec clone.
To have an optical board for the agetec, the only “clean” solution would be to have a custom pcb and plastic cover made, both with mirror positioning of the “dummy microswitch” locations and mounting holes. Perhaps toodles would be interested in this .
Edit feb 26 2015 : the stock PCBs are compatible between both models, only the optical boards are not compatible with the agetec, so I rewrote the post accordingly. Repeating pcb all over the place made me mistake the jlf pcb for the optical sensors pcb( both spark & flash1) , which is wrong: the casing doesn;t perfectly mimick the microswitch contours and the solder points are not placed in such a manner that when placed upside down they woul’nt rub against the agetec restrictor. The stock jlf pcb can be placed upside down in an agetec while the optical sensors cannot unless you absolutely need to ram them in or attempt to undergo several mods that aren’t really worth ruining the aftermarket optical products mentioned.
http://www.affiliatebible.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/08/wise.jpg
Why are you even replying to a three year old thread?
Why am I answering a 3 yo thread?
Well you didn’t update some info and while your initial post may prove extremely useful to modders ( someone HAd to make that post showing side by side comparisons of agetec VS jlf sticks) , you still didn’t update the post to correct some mistakes, such as " Agetec’s pivot, spring cover, spring, actuator all fit the JLF and vise versa." which is not only untrue but contradicts your own experience where the agetec pivot proved to be overdimensioned for the JLF pivot socket. Think of the poor asshole who will make an order to mod his stick and think he can put an agetec pivot bearing to replace a bad/missing one in a jlf…when what is possible is only to put a JLF pivot bearing in an agetec pivot socket ( THAT is useful, and you mentioned it under the photo descriptions, only to be contradicted in your conclusion). what’s the big issue with updating your initial post ( left-right issue, pivot bearing issue) ?
The real reason for reviving this thread is because LOADS of gamers are still buying second hand ascii/agetec dreamcast arcade sticks to either mod them or have fun with them as they are…they probably are looking for info on this site via google as soon as they acquire the sticks. I personally have a friend who just swears by them even though there are better alternatives, the “dreamcast nostalgia” is still alive and well with a select number of gamers .
Also, the craze being today about hall effect and optical sensing boards for arcade joysticks, some people perhaps would like to know if they’re compatible with the agetec without resorting to replace with a sanwa jlf first. The answer being a clear NO for the toodles and flash boards on an agetec, unfortunately. This should be added to your initial post.
This being said, if anyone here has spare agetec levers they removed from their agetec arcade sticks, I’m interested: the agectec levers seem to be all nylon construction, the pivot bearings have very little grind ( super smooth if well lubed ), cause almost no jump and the extra thick restrictor plate outperforms by far even sanwa’s latest blue JLF monobloc restrictor plate , let alone the classic screw-on JLW plate which sorrily cracks if you dare tighten a tad more.
The purpose of the thread was to mainly show the similarities and differences with the Agetec and the JLF. The OP showed enough of what you can/not do with “stock” parts. OP stated that you probably could mod up the Agetec with San/Sei microswitch PCBs, but that’s really up to the individual.
You pointed out that you’d like to know if a JLF-DESIGNED optical board would fit into a not-designed to fit into the Agetec joystick housing. Think about that REALLY hard for just a minute. Most people would come to the conclusion after seeing EVERY website that sells a JLF-specific optical board where it’s specifically mentioned “This product is made for the Sanwa JLF”, the optical board more than likely doesn’t work for anything else without modding.
Here’s the thing. The general consensus here is that Agetec parts have a shelf life to them. A specifically made set of parts for a specifically made joystick. If they fail, or if you want to mod, you’re on your own. The general consensus also pretty much agrees that a somewhat simple JLF mod would be the best thing to do for the long term life of the joystick. Whether parts fail, or if you’d like to do one of the various optical mods, etc, a JLF allows easier replacement parts.
Lastly, bite the bullet for yourself. If you feel like something could/should be done (like an Agetec optical solution), try it yourself and post it up.
I’m not to bite anything, Xpulse, sorry, the OP made a few mistakes but doesn’t want to correct them.Other posters here pointed them out . You’re just turning things around your own way making things worse by dramatizing everything. first of all, you tell me to test optical boards “on my own” on agetec sticks …then to post “my results”, I mean did you even read my post where I explain that the optical boards have a pcb design that mimicks the positioning of the JLF microswitches on the joystick’s body? Position that is in reverse direction of the one on the agetec stick?
The thing is that if you take the spark pcb ( toodle’s) , putting it upside down , attempting to squeeze it somehow in an agetec stick body means that: **You’d absolutely need to file the corners of the black plastic casing, rounding them off to the same radius as the rounded corners of the microswitch slots on the agetec… ** which could be feasible if you managed to obture the openings you just created via filing of the said casing which was originaly meant to shield the optointerrupter circuit against external light sources ; also, placing either spark or flash optical sensor boards upside down in an agetec stick means you’ll have the solder points facing directly the restrictor plate which is not a good thing and is not designed to work this way (the sanwa jlf and agetec sticks which are technically the same are designed to have the solder points not rubbing against any surface thanks to a body cutout in the jlf and cutouts in the restrictor for the agetec.Alas, the PCB surface still contacts the body). The spark, ASCII optical and flash1 sensors have many solder points located in places that do not coincide with the locations of the soldering points on a jlf pcb, this is why the optical flash and products have attachment pins coming from the casing, some of which could act like risers to prevent the JLF main body to rub against soldering points or various protruding SMD components as in the ASCII optical sensor although the protruding plastic pins barely protect if at all the pcb to be honest, it would be worse if you modded the casing and placed them upside down in an agetec to have the pcb contact the restrictor! * Also, it would need some minor rewiring of the harness since joystick directions would be attributed to different pins on the 5-pin connector, but that’s something easy.
This is a lot of hassle for nothing since you’re just going to ruin an expensive optical pcb that is meant to be placed only in a jlf . The amount of filing is not just the corners to be rounded, you have to fit the optical casing to fit exactly the agetec joystick microswitch slots and that is really not worth the trouble, the other option being to file the agetec body and file down the edges that make the microswitch slots, which means you cannot go backwards if you wish to put microswitches back in the stick, since the slots wouldn’t be present anymore.
here are the facts:
The Agetec pivot bearing, oversized when compared to the jlf part, is not compatible with the Sanwa JLF stick body, no discussion.
The optical boards ( all of them: sanwa flash, ASCII optical, toodles, etc, all made for JLF) are not compatible with the Agetec joystick unless you find a solution for obturing the casings if you file it and finding something that would prevent the agetec restrictor from rubbing against the optical devices solder points and SMD components (the ASCII one has loads of protruding SMD components) . akin to the plastic riser pins or a foam pad (the foam pad of the new gamerfinger optical sensor kit for JLF is officially meant to do so, concerning the plastic pins, not quite so…) found on these specific products.
Some photos presented as “JLF on the left, Agetec on the right” are in fact the other way around in the opening post.
Sanwa JLF and Agetec/Ascii sticks have their microswitches disposed in opposite directions, which means the restrictor plates are not compatible because you can’t simply place a restrictor upside down for various obvious reasons.
Are we dealing with 3 yo people here who do not accept their mistakes and consider the initial post as sacrosaint and untouchable? Posts such as the opening post are meant to be revised every once in a while for the sake of informing people in the best possible manner.
It not like I’m saying the original post is a load of crap: lots of useful photos, very clear , but man the analysis sounds like someone extremely unsure about which mods are possible and which aren’t, changing his mind like 3 times in a row. I think the main goal of these “complete tests” or “X model vs Y model” should respect the newcomers who google this site for info before buying second hand sticks and brand new compatible accessories, by giving them the right info, not “I think you could” all over the place when in fact you simply cannot do a certain mod, which is the bare minimum.
Have a good day, sir.
- Spark (both versions), sanwa flash (old and reissue), ascii optical…all these models have the bare pcb contact the joystick body. The gamerfinger optical (which I initially thought was a sanwa flash until I checked again in the stick case) has a foam pad to isolate the PCB from wear and tear when rubbing against the JLF main body. Foam pad or not, putting it upside down in an agetec stick will result in the same problems, and it is absolutely not feasible to place the foam pad between the pcb and the restrictor for evident practical reasons (getting in the way of the actuator for example…).
Blah Blah Blah, shut up. Just get off your high horse.
Yeah I haven’t updated the thread in a billion years, why the conversation ran its course. Everything that could be taken from the thread was already taken.
There really nothing more that could of been said. Contradictions? Where did I contradict myself? I was wrong about the switches, but if you read the thread I did address that.
The Pivot, there no contradiction. I said that both pivots could fit both shafts, but I illustrated that the agetec pivot did not fit the body.
There no good reason to necro old threads like these. You aren’t smart for pointing out something from 4 years ago.
if you read my old post about fitting a optical board, the solution was given in the very next line of that post.
Anyways if someone who is new to modding wanted to start on a Agetec, I would recommend him or her not to, the Agetec isn’t a starter level project by a long shot.
Blah blah blah is a line you come up too often with to diss contradicting opinions. your exact quote is the following "As for the Ascii optical/ Sanwa Flash/ Toodles Spark, I have no idea if they fit the stock Ascii stick inside the Agetec.You are better off fitting a JLF into the Agetec first if you want to use the Sanwa Flash or Toodles Spark. "
Good point for pointing towards a genuine JLF for opticals but you did say you had no clue if the opticals did fit to start with. In doubt, you proposed to stay away from an agetec if opticals were to be considered, which is not a final “yes” nor a “no”.
Alas you consider my explanations as “blah blah blah” because you didn’t study the optical products mentioned close enough.
Also you came to the conclusion in the opening post , I quote you, that “Agetec’s pivot, spring cover, spring, actuator all fit the JLF and vise versa.” You know that this doesn’t mean just putting it on the shaft, come on. The agetec pivot bearing does not fit in JLF, so the implication is right in one direction but not the other, so “vise versa” does not apply. Admit it and read your own post, yes you did say the equivalence was “vise versa” when it wasn’t, I call that a contradiction.
Where’s the high horse there? You’re responding as if I rejected your initial post as a whole, when I simply said that it needed to be revised a bit. Shame on me for daring to say something constructive! Truth is, you take personally the slightest bit of criticism as if it were an insult. Hey we all appreciate the agetec sticks on this thread and some of the mods that can be applied to them, so there’s no place for feuding imho.
PS :
on the other side, upon further inspection, all optical sensor products for JLF (flash, ascii, spark) have the black casing secured to the pcb via black pins that protrude and probably act as spacers/risers as well. Ascii has 4 pins. The first generation sanwa flash only has 2 pins from the casing protruding, flattened out sloppily (the kind of stuff a kid could do with a soldering iron) , while the reissue has also 2 pins but they’re not “squashed” by melting and rivet firmly the pcb. The Spark models have 4 pins but they are located in such a manner that when installed they do not contact the body ( thus do not act as risers/spacers). This is not good in fact, since the spark, ascii and first gen flash’s pcb rubs on the body, when installed in a JLF the pins either stick out from a cutout in the body (spark) or contact the body and barely rise the board (flash models) high enough from the JLF’s body.
This is probably why the gamerfinger optical kit has a foam pad spacer included (see official instruction notice with diagrams) ( not present with the spark, ascii or flash) which isolates the pcb from the JLF main body to avoid excessive friction .
Now if this is put upside down in an agetec, not only do you need to file the casing like crazy to make it fit, which would need to repair and obture all the casing afterwards, but you’d need to protect the pcb from the agetec restrictor, somehow and personally I don’t think a foam spacer would do, and I don’t want to try it neither (who wants to file expensive optical sensor boards anyways to start with…)
EDIT: I received a phone call from a friend who notified me that the kit containing a foam pad wasn’t the flash1 reissue sold by akishop (they only include a dustcover), but the gamerfinger optical. Very similar to the lash and old spark, but there are a few technical differences.
With enough Dremel anything can fit.
Sure, as I expained before, if you rout the ridges on the Agetec main body which are meant to secure the microswitches, installing an optical pcb upside down would be feasible ( you’d end up with the pcb contacting the restrictor) , but if you change your mind and decide to put back microswitches one day , they’ll only be secured by the pins on the face of the agetec restrictor plate that contacts the microswitches. To what extent these pins on the restrictor hold up to abuse with the ridges on the body removed, remains a mystery …one would need to sacrifice his agetec stick to check!!
Easy. Place switches onto base without a gate. Use the nubs/pins to keep them in place. Get a self threading screw in the right diameter and then screw down the switches through the outer holes not being used by nubs. Then, cut the nubs off while, screw the switches in using the new holes you created, and thread new holes where the nubs once were. Drill through the gate to allow the screws to pass through and mount the switches to the base. Problem solved.
True. I wonder if the mod would work with hi-strength nylon screws (to reduce wear in the switch mounting holes, since the ridges gone there is not lateral support) , providing you tap the holes since these screws are not self threading. Perhaps the assembly wouldn’t be strong enough with M3 nylon screws, someone will need to test the mod after all, whatever the screw type.
I see why you want to cut the nubs (or securing pins) off: to avoid the hassle of rising the switches with a spacer of the right thickness to simulate the pcb now absent, or else there would be a gap between the switches and the restrictor plate , leading to rattle noises and wear. The funny part is the screwed assembly would probably feel sturdier than the stock agetec (or a stock JLF), a firmness not unlike the JLW without the fear of cracking the gate, or say a LS32 without the sharp steel plate edge eating the actuator…even though in these models only the restrictors are screwed and the switches held only by the pressure of the assembly and pins.
With this idea of screws, one could go back and forth between an optical kit and classic switches then, I was too pessimistic at first concerning the compatibility with switches once the body was filed/routed.
Personally, for the sake of precision I’d leave the ridges on the main body on before screwing -then- I’d file or rout what needs to be removed, since the tabs securing the gate are flexible.
It wasn’t so “off topic” after all to find a solution!! Even beginner modders can attempt this now, since it doesn’t involve routing the case in which the stick is mounted, but only the lever’s main body, without resorting to install a JLF, also a beginner could file and sand if he doesn’t master clean routing !
Old thread, but I’m attempting a non destructive mod to the Agetec, I will be replacing the spring, pivot, and switches, with applicable JLF parts, and a set of Crown CWB203C as exact size button replacements. Only thing that needs to happen is to remove the tabs from the holes, and replace the stick harness. Wish me luck. Thanks Darksakul and FightpadClub over at deviant art. This will be a treat.